well before i post this guide on the official 9d forum i wanna see what other players here think.

Purpose: while many people talk about pvp and pve guides as two separate things however, i feel as though they really aren't that different from each other this however only applies to warriors and nukers (and to some small extent hybrids and healers however, i will discuss them separately if people want me to)

Clan wise : while clans are often chosen based on personal interest there are some benefits to chose some clans over the other.

For warriors
Brother Hood - is always a common choice for warriors with the most powerful weapon in game and a defence buff this clan makes powerful warriors.

Shaolin: again great warriors with the second most powerful warrior weapon and the attack rating buff it sure is beneficial.

Other clans which you might wanna avoid if you really picky

League of Beggars : while an hp self buff of 200 hp sounds great it doesn't make up for the poor weapon and weak overall maximum damage in the end these disadvantages outweigh the benefits in that it generally takes longer to kill monsters then other warriors. and as a warrior the less time you spend in front of a single mob the better.

SF : similar reason to beggars but worse due to lack of hp buff the dodge buff is not really beneficial in anyway and while they are great for nukers it doesn't fair so well against other warrior roles.

This leaves you with two more clans to chose warrior Heavenly Demon and Wu Tang these two clans are overall balanced with Wu Tang having a bit more minimum damage and balance and Heavenly Demon with a bit more maximum damage and a bit large of a gain from refinement bonus so overall these two clans are pretty cool but remember you get no clan buff and your items will cost a lot more so if your stuck between these two chose go with whichever you think is cooler or HD because you get a bit more damage output. One thing to consider though is that since the next update came out both now get 60 defense from their epithet which is a nice advantage as it makes it better then the Killer of COF dungeon so stick with it till you get Killer of VOH

Nukers

BoT : again a 50 defense buff added to the other defense buff they have is really beneficial the extra ve from black clan relics is also decent while not too much its better then nothing.

HD - clan epithet is nice at the start with its add 40 defense this clan and WT are great from the start. Due to the following update you now get 60 defense which makes it really better.

While Sho might have an ar buff that works for ck damage also its really not that beneficial of a buff as a nuker you really shouldn't be missing often so don't pick this clan solely because of its clan buff

Beggars are fine as a nuker i feel you shouldn't be getting hit but hey mistakes do happen so this clan buff might help

other clans are ok but not really anything special

Builds ahh here is were we get to it

Warriors : this is perhaps the hardest build to make right now since most other roles have a generally agreed upon build making an effective warrior build is something people are striving for

Strength, Con, Dex well thats what you commonly here get them as high as possible and your good right well many people have a difficult time with this. one thing to remember is that since letz's guide was introduce a good amount of people have been following the str build routine so too much dexterity is no longer needed. so remember to expect that some of this while be stuff that is commonly heard

Strength - is as usually the most important stat for all me lee fighters it builds up defense and builds up damage which is good.

Dexterity i agree with should be minuim for your level and Oc 4 you get your first dexterity requirement (21) you should be fine adding 1 each level after that and remember that the shift from Rc 12 to RL 1 is 2 dexterity not 1 and from Fd 12 - Sm1 is 4 dexterity.

Wisdom: again the general consensuses is correct at leaving it minimum for relic usage. However some will add a bit more for ck dodge to kill hybrids however in general some relics will do.

Essence: same as wisdom

Constitution: well here is were things get a bit tricky many people come out with random numbers such as 100hp every stage or 1k hp every other stage or whatever in my opinion constitution is clearly the main stat of concern for a warrior how much is too much/little ? well in my opinion a warrior shouldn't go crazy with constitution and

many of you feel that warriors should have a lot of con well to be honest i agree. in fact everyone agrees that warrior should have 250 str/dex/con the thing is when we should max them. Here is what i believe since str adds both damage and defense that is much more beneficial then 40 hp per point. So how do we raise our hp to a suitable level well while it may be a bit expensive i also believe it is highly recommended assuming you can afford things.
1. Hp clothing is a must 200/150 hp shirt/pants are needed as they let you save a few more points.
2. If you spent you time gathering cakes nice feel free to use them but if not thats cool use any buffs you can get your hands on whether it be healer/hybrid +10 from item mall or just +5 con from cavity press everything helps
3. Relics a as a warrior with 6 pcks go
1. Rc bk con relic
2. Rc bk str relic
3. Rc bk dex relic
4. Fd bk con relic
5. Fd bk str relic
6. Fd bk dex relic

before you get to fd use anything you want for 4-6 mainly clan relic, and anything else you feel has nice bonus effects at Ec you will most like have 8 pcks by then but if you dont its kool to take out Rc relics for Ec since they are better. other things maybe considered such as 200def but by this time hp is no longer a problem in my build.

well the real point of this is to conserve points so you do not waste too much on con its all about getting to that 250 strength then i recommend 2/2 con/dex or 3/1 con/dex whichever you prefer. In other words you need to find a way were you can grind effectively with as little base con points as possible. The overall goal is to reach something similar to Healer/Hybrids of needing con as a requirement for relics only and while i admit its difficult for some people the idea is to get it so that at the least you do not need to add any more then 12 points (grand total of 20 base) to con before maxing str. i do admit i am not perfect either i right now am at like 14 base (including the 8 you cant change) on my warrior but i am trying to get there.

Weapon if you can get WD weapons go for it RL is nice since it gives you some added hp heal should help all other WD weapons will give you something like extra hp/damage and stuff generally good for you if you cant afford it just pick a decent weapon and refine (no refinement at Rl, +5 max between Fd - SM at gb you can go ahead and refine to higher levels) As a warrior its a give to stick with you clans main weapon

5. Skills another topic main people go for all the debuffs that warrior have on there smashes right sounds cool bleed, -ar,-movement speed its suppose to be good for both pve and pvp well to tell you the truth dont bother they are pretty much useless.
1. Bleed - Please in pve the monster loses like 1% after 30 seconds by that time you should have killed the monster.
2. Movement speed- right cause you really plan on keeping up with the monster before it nukes you.
3. Attack Rating- umm... does this even work at cheng 10 i still got hit more or less the same amount of times even if it works its not that big of a difference.
4. Defense- read 3
5. you get were i am going with this

so what smashes do we consider well in my opinion there are 5 smashes a warrior needs (when skills change this will also change but for now this applies to the US 9d)
1. Big smashes (30 seconds) no brainier high damage = good
2. Silence (24 seconds) again nice damage and interrupts skills great.
3. The first smash you get no the -ar but the one that only does damage plus additional damage while i am sure you think it suxs at first at cheng 10 with added additional damage this becomes you main 2 second smash
4. the one that increases hostility (Exorcism for HD)while most people hate the effect the damage is nice
5. Rl 7 damage only smash again deals great damage

notice that i pick the ones with the highest damage well like shown above the effect ones don't matter in pve no real lasting effect as far as i have seen. even worse in pvp since its nerfed.these five smashes are great using 1 and 2 at the start and spam 3-5 till u can use 1 and 2 again. (Note: those 3 smashes at the end are significantly harder to level then the other effect smashes)

Other skills : the buffs that you get mainly the Sm ones are nice the others that you get a good to train but not needed.

Feel free to train the charging skills while you may not use them in pvp so much they do nice damage so for pve its ok. pvp maybe for nukers.

well my post is getting long so i am gonna leave warriors right here i might/ most likely will add more as i collect information and based on questions you guys have.

Nukers- this is even easier in terms of the similarity there is an overall agreement on nukers also

wisdom- well wisdom is to nuker as str is to all other classes it is the base stat the must max asap (well with nukers you might leave it at 220ish for more added str but nonetheless you get the point)

Essence- well this is basically dex for other characters keep this at min requirement for bracers. once you max wis feel free to add 2 of these per level.

dexterity- min for relics i think its common already if you wanna know why go str over dex for pvp ask and i will answer but i think most ppl know.

con- my opinion if your a nuker and get hit you deserve to die but true so i leave it at 8 until i max out wisdom then pump it to 30 if your nukers are maxed of course if not start adding str but don even think of pvping without a min of 30 con (Note: con after maxing nukes cause you will probably have 90% of hp covered in ew until then adding con will get u out of that state so best w8 till ur done with the nukes.

str- add once you get a decent amount of con or once you max wis.

again the idea here is that most nukers agree 250 on wisdom/ess/con (perhaps you can live with less con) and the rest in strength but again its all about order.

Gear - Speed clothing slotted cant buy it work with the npc till you can get it

Weapon- Bracers WD if u can if you cant crits if you can if not anything you can get your hands on you really don't have to refine these since they wont do you much good but of course at higher levels i recommend refining them just for well the hell of it.

items in pcks- str relics, con, for pvp ess might be ok dont go for wisdom since you better not miss any other class. really anything that adds defense is nice. WT/MoS have some nice little def relics to add along with the str relics

Epithet:
Killer - defense
Lightening Fist - best in my opinion def hp/ve movement speed
Secret- 10% speed nothing more to say

skills-
1. Fd bleed - umm overpwred its a given use it in pve and if u can surprise your opponent in pvp you pretty much win
2. Fd slow nuke- while the damage is less the effect last longer so go with it
3. RL 10 nuker fast, damaging its your main nuke
4. all shields duh
5. all buffs defense (most important) wisdom (not too big a difference but hey why not)

well its kinda late here and while i am not done with this nuker section i think the rest is pretty simply please feel free to leave any questions/comments and i will answer them when i can.

Edit: fixed some errors to make it easier to read and added some stuff on con for warriors.

Edit: added some stuff due to the update with the new road to dragons quest mainly the new epithet from WT/HD and i added an HD/WT dispute on just before the warrior secontion.
This post has been modified on Jan 08 , 2008 06:08:01 AM by MTree.

good guide,iv add it to vault guide list.

just a few adjustments: WIS for nukers is like STR for all the other classes is matter of skilling not of effect. WIS for nukers is like DEX (accuracity) and a exponential STR (get's stronger every cheng of the nuke). Also ESS is like DEX just in matter of skilling because the effect off ESS is that of STR when it comes to Chi Kung.


it's wis...



it's speed and not defense

There are other minor errors but all in all a very nice guide.
Congratz!

ty 4 reading i made the corrections to the parts u quoted on str = wis the main idea i was trying 2 get accross was that wis is the more important stat

the additional damage is not applied in pvp so it is reduced. bleeding might be better than the additional damage one right now since bleed damage is counted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanpakutou


actually the additional damage is nerfed i have noticed an increase between this smash over the other smashes the bleed is perhaps the most usless smash at cheng 10 the bleed still doesn't do much about 15 hp max over the course of the whole smash (if i am not mistaken) these three smashes have indeed proven to be the strongest in over others if you dont bleive me i believe the - defence smash is the next strongest ( really its - speed that that also is because of additional damage ). Bleed effect is kinda usless also its not like the nukers bleed were it helps kill the opponete the warriors bleed will probably never be the actual cause of victory.

Since i know have a better computer (i am still school but this one lets me post easier) i can answer the preivious comment better. wis = str in the sense that it is the base stat (meaning the one you wanna get to 250 asap) simply because it increase damage more then essence once your nukes get up there. though i do i understand what you meant by ess = str cause technically both increase damage (its just that str is the only way to increase phy damage were as chi chung you have two options one is jsut better.

well since i am done with everything and have some spare time i can talk bit more about the guide.

first a big thanks to everyone who took the time to read the guide and for those that also commented on the guide.

Second some basic explanation

warriors- like i said warriors are probably considered the hardest class to build since there really is no general consensus like there is for other builds other then max str/dex/con. however the ideal warrior would be able to function as well as a hybrid/healer in terms of being able to tank so the idea is to max out str by using other items to fill in the hp gap then add hp to make the rest of your life easier. and while i also talk about how builds in pvp and pve are the same i forgot to say that there is kind of a caveat to that however its not so much in terms of build as it is items so lets look to that.

PvE

WT hp absorb hat is nice and can be used from RL 12 till Cs 1 and probably beyond that so i suggest saving up for these when you can.

If you can get your hands on multiple slotted pieces then for pve adding con/60 life ornaments are good while they won't be amazing and its not something you need to get asap but rather just something you should consider if you have anything spare around your storage.

Epithets for warriors also change for pve the idea is go with a killer epithet (from one of the versions of CoF) or true general wei if your lucky enough to get it (but if you already do have it your probably no reading guides...lol)

and thats the overall difference like i said the build stays the same but just some minior changes in items now for pvp

Hat should be the Fd ar hat or Gb dodge hat or any slotted speed hat you get

Any slotted clothing should be speed slotted not con slotted

and since 3/4 of the roles usually (sometimes the hybrid might be hybrid nuker) have decent dexterity you are better off going with Shen Mo once you get it for that go with whatever adds the most defense.

Nukers really do not change what ever adds speed for both.

and well these are the general exceptions to the build again nothing dealing with build rather its the items.

additional damage is useless at higher levels because it is far less potential than what bleed can do. the bleed deals a lot more than 15 damage over the whole skill. its closer to 80-100 damage over the whole smash. what you see is NOT the additional damage, but the improvement in the damage of the main smash.

the defense smash and bleed smash is useful for pve as well. every bit counts when fighting bosses and they help to neutralize the boss' regeneration rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanpakutou


in pve the -def and bleed smash have very minimal effect despite the discriptions (the defense perhaps a bit more usfull) the bleed however accumulates to about 1% from the bleed. As for boss regain i honestly doubt that is a big problem even is the addition damage does not work in pvp (which i am pretty sure it does) it works in pve meaning the additional damage be more beneficial then the silly little bleed you get. While in pvp you can feel free to use the -def smash (if you do not believe that addition damage applies) however the effect is mininal do not expect to win simply because you lowered there defense by a little bit (the effects are nerfed) the same with the bleed in pvp the bleed is minor about 15 hp loss (edit: not throughout the entire skill but per tick sorry for the confusion) and the effect only lasts for about 1-2 ticks in pvp.

so if you think its better in pve then thats fine but in pvp the effects are very minimal that they are not even counted you are better off going for what gives the most damage.

the bleed lasts 15 seconds which is about the same as the additional damage anyways. bosses have incredibly high defense and even the additional damage does nothing to them. a boss' regen can extend the fight by over 50% of the time it takes to kill the boss if it has no regen at all. a HD fc10 warrior with +7 saber is lucky to deal 700 dmg a hit to them (using wild tower as a reference). bleed on the other hand ignores their defense completely dealing more damage than additional damage could possibly do.

additional damage is nullified in pvp so it has no use at all. what you see is the pure damage of the smash.

the attack rating smash is less noticeable at lower levels. at higher levels, everyone has at least 100 dex and it becomes very noticeable then because 12% of 500 dodge is a lot. so the lower attack rating is noticeable.

seems like it didnt save have to do it all over again this probably wont be as good as the original but oh well

Using HD as an example

1. i see you claim that additional damage isn't applied in pvp but i still do not see any official proof as to why it does not as far as i know and from what i am testing every part of a skill works in pvp but is nerfed but a variable (of about 5 i believe though not exactly 5) while you might be right that the damage may be pure i hardly doubt that.

PvE

1. the regain is not that effective that it makes you take 50% longer to kill a monster this claim is just unwarranted. as far i can see it can hardly even add an extra minute much less take up 1/2 of the time you took to fight the boss. if this were true it means that a boss reheals 50% of the damage you deal to it so for every 2% you take it should go up by 1% thats something i do not see at all.

2. there was something though that you did menthion that was right bleed does bypass the defense which is a nice thing when fighting bosses you are right. however, (big however) until Fc 7 - 12 pve is not mainly fighting bosses in order to level but rather fighting mobs. in this case it first should not take you 15 seconds to kill a monster. and second the additional damage does not take that much of a damage lose since mobs have pathetic defense.

btw using hd skill here are the damages

additional 651 ~ 1610 (+392)
bleed 666 ~ 1632 (133 15s/5s)

so yes while over the course of 15 seconds the bleed does more however a fight against one monster should not take 15s and if it does something is wrong. the additional damage is better because you get the full burst of your damage immediately as a pose to having to wait for you damage to be applied. both are on a 2s cool down so assuming you use each one every 2 seconds the damages are as follows
additional 980 ~ 2002 (all the time)
bleed 799 ~ 1765 (except for the first time you use the smash)

conclusion additional > bleed as a spamming tool while
bleed > addition over time. thing is pvp and pve are all about spamming on neither of them do you want fights to last long.
PvP

again going with the basic principal that things are nerfed by 5 (using this number because its a whole number better to work with)

additional 130.2 ~ 322 (+78.4)
bleed 133.2 ~ 326. 4 (26.6) note in pvp you get the effect only twice or so 53.2 still less then the additional damage so again as a spamming tool the additional damage still does better

-ar ahh but see i am not talking about lower lever i am talking about higher levels and again in pvp worthless

1. 651 ~ 1610 same as the base damage that you get from the additional damage one however nothing to compensate but a mere 12% reduction in ar.

2. lets take the common base stat of dex for most melee fighters 130 x 4 ar per dex = 520 in ar without other adjustments.

3. 520 x.12 = 64.2 so you get about that much more dodge which is in my opinion worthless but even if you still dont think its worthless lets not forget skills effects included while applies are nerfed by about 5 so that 12% just got reduced to 2.4% so the effect is now

520 x .024 = 12.48 additional dodge the user gets a little over 4 points to dex hmmm. now its really is pointless since the probability of you dodge an attack b/c you have 12.48 more dodge then they do is slim to none.

conclusion if you really want to use any other smash then the ones i listed by all means you can the game gives you multiple options to chose from however as far as i see what i gave is the best i see.

TOO much theory, TOO less concrete evidence!
You seem to be high level players and such have very many friends. Ask a player who has your exact level to join you in a pvp map and test every smash. He should only stay there and report the exact ammount of damage the bleed does, the exact amount of ar/def that has been diminished and every other smash that exists. Bleed should be not nerfed but if you prove that it is, then this myth will be BUSTED (i always wanted to say that...).
So please don't argue anymore. Just prove these facts by testing it out.
Tnx.

i've been testing with high RC and low RLs (RC10-RL2) who have been training their smashes. i look for people who have at least cheng 4 and upwards to cheng 7. high fcs and cs tends to have too much stat altering items and its harder to find people with similar builds.

cheng 5 bleed does about 70 worth of damage twice over 6 seconds for about 140-150 damage.

by alternating between 2 of the status effect smashes rather than using just the defense smash, you deal a lot more damage once the smashes are cheng 4 or higher. below that, actives are just a bit faster.

sorry that i haven't replaied for a long time i have been doing some more information on the way warriors and nukers should be built. So far i have more information on the warriors before i share that with you guys i would like to inform everyone three things

1. in terms of nuker guides there JadeAngle07 has made a nuker pvp guide which also seems pretty legitment i plan on trying this to see if that works better then adding defense.

2. PKKer might place this guide on the offical 9dragons website which is perfectly fine since he kinda helped with most of the guide.

3. I added some stuff on wu-tang/heavenly demon clan choice.

----------------------------------------------------------
Now for information on the warrior equipment.

well i have done some more information on item usage

1.str/con relics are still the most important thing to have for Rc/Fd/Ec i suggest using all three str relics and perhaps 2 maybe three of the con relics

2. the dexterity relic i have determined should be removed once you recieve Gb in exchange for 60 defense relics (perfer the 2% additional hp) and of course haveing the 200 def trinket is also needed in

3. the hp trinket is something needed for grinding only so fit one in there when you grind

4. blood beads are something that use should use upon being able to purchase/ kill general wei

as for the rest of the guide it seems to be accurate.