<Preface?>
(Skip if you like)

Well ~
it is one of my "good-for-nothing(?)" work/research in recent days ~
It is about which skills to use and combo in PvP
And it is, of course, for bladers ~
(sorry, bladers first, but I think I can prepare other classes once I tested them all by myself @@)

----------------------------------------------------------

<Introduction>
(you can skip this if you understand DPS)

You may ask,
"Why can't I just throw away my Lightning Slash / Blade Scud as much as possible?"

Hmph... That MAY BE a good way,
but sometimes (perhaps in many times) that is not the best way.

Why ?
The answer is DPS (Damage per Second)

For example,
Blade Cry (Lv.20) vs Vital Interfere (Lv.20)
which one is better?

Some new guys may say,
(ATK=500 Amp=0% Opponent's_DEF = 500)
For calculation/estimation of damage done,
kindly refer to this post...
http://forum.mmosite.com/topics/139/200807/26/5475,1.html?time=1217186037
"My Blade Cry does a 243 damage to my friend, but my Vital Interfere is only 87, Blade cry wins~!!"

Well, to me I will certainly say "NO...!"

Casting time for Blade Cry = 4.3s
Casting time for Vital Interfere = 1.0s

DPS for Blade Cry = 243 / 4.3 = 56.51
DPS for Vital Interfere = 87 / 1.0 = 87.00

So who is the winner now?
Let me put it this way...

If I can neglect the cool-down time of ANY skills,
and I am given 43 seconds to hit a target, using either "Pure Blade Crys" or "Pure Vital Interferes"
Which one will I choose?

I will have to analyse:
I can do 10 Blade Crys in the time limit
or 43 Vital Interferes

The total damage?
Let's compare ~

Pure Blade Crys:
Damage = 10 x 243 = 2430

Pure Vital Interferes:
Damage = 43 x 87 = 3741

Now we can tell, obviously, which is better.

So, the higher the DPS of a skill,
the "better" skill it is !!

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<General info for commonly used skills (for PvP)>

I will provide general info for commonly used skills in PvP such as Storm Grind
here they go (from lower rank to higher rank)

NOTE:
the "In-Combo Casting Time" is only a rough measure
don't take it TOO seriously,
but anyway, I think it is quite accurate because I recorded the time(s) MYSELF with my timer ~ XD
If the In-Combo Casting Time is somehow unexpectedly fast (say, shorter than half of it's Normal Casting Time), I will add some exclaimation marks (!) for them ~ XP

Impact Stab Lv.20:
[Amp x1.35 | ATK +47.90]
Normal Casting time = 1.6s
In-Combo Casting Time = 0.6s (!)

Double Slash Lv.20:
[Amp x1.35 | ATK +58.40]
Normal Casting time = 1.3s
In-Combo Casting Time = 0.8s

Assault Lv.20:
[Amp x1.25 | ATK +121.50]
Normal Casting time = 1.1s
In-Combo Casting Time = 0.8s

Double Rising Lv.20:
[forgot, haven't marked it down ... I will finish this later]
Normal Casting Time = 2.2s
In-Combo Casting Time = 1.3s

Storm Grind Lv.20:
[Amp x1.65 | ATK +288.60]
Normal Casting time = 3.0s
In-Combo Casting Time = 1.3s (!)

Vital Interfere Lv.20:
[Amp x1.55 | ATK +75.00]
Normal Casting time = 1.0s
In-Combo Casting Time = 0.75s

Force Kick Lv.20:
[Amp x1.45 | ATK +135.00]
Normal Casting time = 1.0s
In-Combo Casting Time = 0.4s (!)

Twin Moon Slash Lv.20:
[Amp x1.75 | ATK +223.40]
Normal Casting time = 2.3s
In-Combo Casting Time = 1.95s

Mirage Grind Lv.20:
*Sorry I forgot to mark it down*
*I have to go back home and find out my note on this*

Blade Cry Lv.20:
[Amp x1.85 | ATK +549.70]
Normal Casting time = 4.3s
In-Combo Casting Time = 3.8s

Blade Scud Lv.9:
[Amp x1.70 | ATK +799.50]
Normal Casting time = 4.7s
In-Combo Casting Time = 3.8s

Blade Scud Lv.20:
[Amp x1.95 | ATK +860.00]
Normal Casting time = 4.7s
In-Combo Casting Time = 3.8s

Lighting Slash Lv.9:
[Amp x1.70 | ATK +799.50]
Normal Casting time = 3.0s
In-Combo Casting Time = 2.8s

Lighting Slash Lv.20:
[Amp x1.95 | ATK +860.00]
Normal Casting time = 3.0s
In-Combo Casting Time = 2.8s

The point in telling you this is:

Since I am talking about Combo-PvP,
so to calculate DPS of a given skill,
I will refer to its IN-COMBO Casting Time instead of the normal one.

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<Choosing Skills>

It is hard to explain without solid example...
So I will, again, use me as an example ~

ATK = 924
DEF = 891
Amp = 18%
HP = 37xx

If I happen to fight myself,
which skills will I choose? How will I combo?

I will prepare a DPS-list for the above skills,
and be noted that your DPS-list will be affected by opponent's DEF.

Also, if you want to know the reasons why "Damage" is calculated in this way,
you can find the line to a suitable post above =v=

Impact Stab Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.35 + 0.18 ) + 47.9 = 1461.62
Damage = ( 1461 - 891 ) / 4 =142.5
DPS = 142 / 0.6 = 236.67

Double Slash Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.35 + 0.18 ) + 58.4 = 1472.12
Damage = ( 1472 - 891 ) / 4 =145.25
DPS = 145 / 0.8 = 185.00

Assault Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.25 + 0.18 ) + 121.5 = 1442.82
Damage = ( 1442 - 891 ) / 4 =137.75
DPS = 137 / 0.8 = 171.25

Double Rising Lv.20:
*I lack the most important info for this right now ...*
*so I will come back to it later ~ sorry*

Storm Grind Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.65 + 0.18 ) + 288.6 = 1979.52
Damage = ( 1979 - 891 ) / 4 =282
DPS = 272 / 1.3 = 209.23

Vital Interfere Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.55 + 0.18 ) + 75 = 1673.52
Damage = ( 1673 - 891 ) / 4 =195.5
DPS = 195 / 0.75 = 260

Force Kick Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.45 + 0.18 ) + 135 = 1641.12
Damage = ( 1641 - 891 ) / 4 =187.5
DPS = 187 / 0.4 = 467.5 (!)

Twin Moon Slash Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.75 + 0.18 ) + 223.4 = 2006.72
Damage = ( 2006 - 891 ) / 4 =278.75
DPS = 278 / 1.95 = 142.56

Mirage Grind Lv.20:
*Not enough info for now, sorry*

Blade Cry Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.85 + 0.18 ) + 549.7 = 2425.42
Damage = ( 2425 - 891 ) / 4 =383.5
DPS = 383 / 3.8 = 100.79

Blade Scud Lv.9:
Power = 924 x ( 1.70 + 0.18 ) + 799.5 = 2536.62
Damage = Trunc[ ( 2536 - 891 ) / 4 ] x 1.25 =513.75
DPS = 513 / 3.8 = 135

Blade Scud Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.95 + 0.18 ) + 860 = 2828.12
Damage = Trunc[ ( 2828 - 891 ) / 4 ] x 1.25 =605
DPS = 605 / 3.8 = 159.21

Lightning Slash Lv.9:
Power = 924 x ( 1.70 + 0.18 ) + 799.5 = 2536.62
Damage = Trunc[ ( 2536 - 891 ) / 4 ] x 1.25 =513.75
DPS = 513 / 2.8 = 183.21

Lightning Slash Lv.20:
Power = 924 x ( 1.95 + 0.18 ) + 860 = 2828.12
Damage = Trunc[ ( 2828 - 891 ) / 4 ] x 1.25 =605
DPS = 605 / 2.8 = 216.07

To sort it out:
01. Force Kick Lv.20 (DPS = 467.5)
02. Vital Interfere Lv.20 (DPS = 260)
03. Impact Stab Lv.20 (DPS = 236.67)
04. Lightning Slash Lv.20 (DPS = 216.07)
05. Storm Grind Lv.20 (DPS = 209.23)
06. Double Slash Lv.20 (DPS = 185.00)
07. Lightning Slash Lv.9 (DPS = 183.21)
08. Assault Lv.20 (DPS = 171.25)
09. Blade Scud Lv.20 (DPS = 159.21)
10. Twin Moon Slash Lv.20 (DPS = 142.56)
11. Blade Scud Lv.9 (DPS = 135.00)
12. Blade Cry Lv.20 (DPS = 100.79)

You see,
if you just use your Blade Scuds (likely Lv.9 only) as much as possible,
your average DPS in your combo will NOT be high ~!!

So, my suggestion is:
Put Vital Interfere Lv.20, Impact Stab Lv.20 and Storm Grind Lv.20 into your combo as much as possible.

Blade Scud, even when maxed out to Lv.20, it's DPS is still relatively not very high, but I used it as a powerful finishing attack and it turned out pretty good ~

For Lightning Slash, I personally won't have it Lv.20 because I may use it for a 2nd time if needed, and (as my Blade Scud is Lv.20) having Lightning Slash also at Lv.20 will be VERY inconvenient in PvE ...

Here is my Combo:

Vital Interfere Lv.20
Storm Grind Lv.20
Impact Stab Lv.20
Lightning Slash Lv.9
Assault Lv.20
Double Rising Lv.20 / Twin Moon Slash Lv.20
Impact Stab Lv.20
Vital Interfere Lv.20
Storm Grind Lv.20
(Lightning Slash Lv.9)
Blade Scud Lv.20
*Finish opponent or get myself killed*

That's it ~
Hope you like it ~
um... at least find these things "acceptable"

This post has been modified on Aug 18 , 2008 01:33:47 AM by ionescel.

Uhm i came here now i gonna die?*GASP*

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerofin


It's not that

I just afraid
my "essay" is tooooo long that it may scare people away @@

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionescel
Watched half then i noticed its way too long ._. Gonna finish tomorrow now gonna play guitar

i actually read the whole thing.
lol
it didnt scary me

Done reading whole thing.Yeah some peoples really thinks if put 9 lvl so u can cast it more it doesnt mean u will hit more lol.That ur combo reminds me dot combo of my fb ><

you got lots of skills in your combo, uhmmm... how about ur opponent? if he/she can knockdown you, your dead right?

can you put the cooldown time of each skill, coz its also important to make a smooth combo.

Vital Interfere Lv.20
Storm Grind Lv.20
Impact Stab Lv.20
Lightning Slash Lv.9
Assault Lv.20
Double Rising Lv.20 / Twin Moon Slash Lv.20
Impact Stab Lv.20
Vital Interfere Lv.20
Storm Grind Lv.20
(Lightning Slash Lv.9)
Blade Scud Lv.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by fujiyu


<Q> If he/she can knockdown you, your dead right?
<A> No.


For combo
I tested my combo myself
so it can be done
but if you insist - here you are ~

[u]Cool down time[/[u]
Vital Interfere 20 = 6.8s
Storm Grind 20 = 7.2s
Lightning Slash 9 = 6.6s
Double Rising 20 = 5.8s(?)
Blade Scud 20 = 24.3s

写的很好。～
+Stickied

Not sure for PvP but my PvE combo is:
Lightning Slash - Storm - Bind - Blade Scud - Bind

y this is sticky?

i know inoescel posted these kind topic like 4-5 times. pretty useful. i kind just add to my favorite links
lol

PvE, i dont have a specific combo. i just like to throw in all the skills into the combo. but LS and BS has to be @ lvl 9.

PvP, I have 5 combos. it is best if u have all the skills on lvl 20.
#1, regular one: LS > GS > vitual > force kick > assult > double slash > impact stab > BS
#2, VS FB and Blader: force kick > lightning slah >assult >double slash > blade scud >lightning slash
#3, VS FA, FA, Warrior and Wizard: force kick>assult>double slash>vital>lightning slash>blade scud
#4, Fade/Debuff combo(vs high lvls and this combo takes practices): stay in a distant. press a random skill, while u are walking toward ur opponent, press fade or field of fear > the #2 or #3 combo
#5, fade combo: TMS > press a skill and walk toward ur opponet, fade > #2 or #3 combo.

@ionescel

that's a long cooltime, almost near to LS cooltime, hmmm.... i think VI should be spamskill in pvp/pve and some knockdown skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fujiyu


fujiyu
perhaps we have different culture

In Cabal Taiwan
Combo PvP is the "official" PvP
non-combo PvP is not quite recognized by most of the players

so my calculations was focused on combos ~
and during combo, knock-down and stunning attacks are mostly useless.
So I will not care aboutknock down or stunning at all
and focus entirely on DPS
The higher DPS, the better ~

About VI Lv.20
Yes 6.8s is quite long
but having it Lv.9 will be less suitable for PvP
(lower DPS)

-------------------------------------------------

Oh one more thing ...

Why sticky O.o?

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This post has been modified on Aug 19 , 2008 06:07:48 PM by ionescel.

I put it as sticky because it's useful information. O.o
Apparently neither the thread starter or the other moderator perceives it as useful information, so I'll just take it down then.

is sword/magic skill amp effects more if your skill is above level 9(coz of skill amp added on skills)

i think 7% amp is effective. i can tell my dmg increased a bit after i got 7% more amp.

hey!! what about if your opponent has many knock back skills? most of the time when i got hit and i was "thrown away" by such skills my combo bar dissapears

OMG too much words in one thread.. my eyes hurt. lvl 9 = faster cool down time = use more than once in pvp = own. very simple... lol max all skills up to master. them a.master - completer. lvl 9...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjMiGz
Well after we calculate right 20 lvl skills can be stronger than lvl 9 even if u can use more than once in pvp.

well i withness by 1st hand that i can beat u with my skills at lvl 9 an urs at 20. 2 comp in a pvp give alot of advantage.

Now I am not sure about one thing.

Is that how much damage will a Blade Scud or a Lightning Slash do ...
x2 damage or x1.2 damage (in PvP)??

In Taiwan it is x1.2 damage only,
thus their damages in PvP are not that impressive as they are in PvE
and so skills such as Vital Interfere and Storm Grind will have a higher DPS than Lightning Slash and especially Blade Scud (same damage longer time)

---------------------

HOWEVER

I tried one of the private servers
and Lightning Slash / Blade Scud have
x2 damage in PvE AND PvP
that means Blade Scud and Lightning Slash has higher DPS
in that private server but NOT in Taiwan official servers...

Do you get my point @@?
If it is x2 damage = do as many Blade Scud / Lightning Slash as possible
If it is only x1.2 damage = I will suggest you to have a combo like mine @@


So I am wondering, in your server(s)
how much damage (x2? x1.2? or else?) does Blade Scud / Lightning Slash do??

I posted a thread on this, asking for help,
but it seems it won't be a success anyway ~o~