Quote from MMO-Champion


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Q u o t e:

Paladins too defensive in PvP

I'll add it's also a problem where paladins as a whole are too defensive and not just the Protection spec ones. You see people describing fighting a Retribution paladin as a three phase boss fight. You might get them down, but then they can reset the fight with Lay on Hands. You get them down again and they bubble and heal. Compare this to an Arms warrior -- do they do great damage in PvP?

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Was this from a battleground, world pvp, or an arena? One versus one the Retribution paladin becomes a monster against most classes because the paladin can heal him or herself. If the vision of this game is focused around one versus one - how can it truly become balanced? Just because X class defeats Y class on a normal basis one versus one does not conclude that X is a monster.

From the type of changes that are appearing, we can conclude that most of the changes are happening because of a sequence like this: Paladin faces off against class Y, and become the Paladin is in danger of dying; He or she presses the button Lay on Hands and is back to full health. Class Y believes this to be unfair, however he or she continues to try and kill the Paladin. The Paladin gets low again and is forced to bubble then heal himself or herself to full. Class Y is basically dead and can no longer kill the Paladin for the third time. Class Y loses.

From that describtion, I can conclude that it is not the Paladin class that is "tanky", or defensive. It is class Y that is too tanky for the Paladin, and the Paladin is forced to use two cooldowns that are over four minutes. If these abilities were to be changed, then the Paladin class would be changed (outside of arena) and the other classes would need to be brought into reasonable levels.



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Q u o t e:
Yes. Are they invulnerable? No. It's cool for paladins to care more about healing than do warriors, for I hope obvious reasons. However, if you are up against a Holy paladin, you should know that one of your greatest challenges should be dealing with their capacity to heal. If you are up against a Prot paladin, you should be concerned with their capacity to take hits. If you are up against a Ret paladin, you should be concerned with how much damage they should deal. You should not, generally, be nearly as concerend about the Prot's ability to self-heal or the Ret's ability to tank you.

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If changes do happen, then you wouldn't be worrying about anything of the Paladin. The Holy Paladin would die, the Protection Paladin would die, and the Retribution Paladin would die. A warrior does not worry about healing, because warriors have talents that automatic heal them when they take a critical strike, or get stunned. I've seen warriors heal themselves for large numbers.

Without Lay on Hands or Bubble none of the spec's above would survive for longer than 2 minutes against a spell caster. That's my two cents on spell casters.



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Q u o t e:
I said this recently, but to reiterate, for most of the other hybrids, picking a role in a fight is much more of a commitment. Sure the Arms warrior can go Defensive Stance and put on a shield, but that doesn't turn them into a Prot warrior. Nobody is super concerned about Feral druids shifting out to heal. We had big problems with DKs earlier being able to tank and deal damage with the same set of tools, but that's in a better place now. Shaman maybe the only other class besides paladins that are able to shift on the fly from dps to healing, but with their mail armor and lack of major defensive cooldowns they just don't feel as hard to kill.
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The Holy Paladin should not be listed in the above argument. I wanted to discuss this earlier, but if you are talking about a Protection / Holy spec, then that argument needs to stop here.

Again, a warrior gets self healed, and a Feral Druid self heals as they are DPS'ing and taking hits. And yes, we are worried about Feral Druids changing forms in BG's and one versus ones. All they have to do is: cyclone then heal to full. What is the difference between bubbling and healing to full compared to that?

Your argument keeps going back and forth between world pvp, one versus one and to arena. Paladins cannot Lay on Hands in arena. We can only bubble, and most teams do not complain about the bubble in arena. Your argument just says this, "You have too many outs in BG's and World PvP, but we are going to try and convey that no other class can do what you do." BG's and World PvP are not normally one versus ones, so the nerfs above wouldn't change anything. It's just annoying to me that such weak arguments are being placed on the table for such a class.

If Blizzard should be concerned about anything and nerfing anything, then in this players humble mind it should be the following: Being Nova'd by a mage for almost an entire fight as well as being slowed and taking 6-9k frostbolts every 1