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Black Dragon Nest Guide

Jul 7, 2014 6:22 am
Reply 19#  Revertible

Imo

Whether a class is "better" or not has nothing to do with raid clearing. Like I have mentioned before, you can clear a raid with any mix of classes, provided the players are good enough. In those cases, it doesn't matter what classes they use, but there are some people who can benefit from the advantages certain classes bring. Whether this is or is not class discrimination... this is simply using the tools provided by the game to make a run go better/smoother.

If you guys can indeed provide feedback from playing every class in BDN... sure ^^. Personally I feel that the personal level of play needed to deal with each stage is pretty much the same, there isn't much class variance at all. That's because a lot of mechanics target the whole team and cannot be dodged. In order to highlight methods to deal with these AS A TEAM, I don't think that the lack of information of how certain skills (and thus classes) make the run easier is useful when writing a raid-specific guide.

(As stated, the above is just imo...)

I'm not saying that a full raid composition should be stated and encouraged. I do think that the advantages of certain classes should be discussed if they are relevant to dealing with the raid, especially for players new to it (if they aren't, why use a guide?).

Talking about classes is not encouraging discrimination. Leave it to idiots who follow blindly to discriminate. It is not our responsibility what others do with information. It is their own decision what to do... (All I'm saying is that imo, a guide should do it's best to highlight STRATEGIES in dealing with a situation. Let me try to demonstrate what I mean with the above example... There's a difference between highlighting that Elemental Aura reduces the freeze duration of the HP change mechanic at Golem and the "duh" reply of "Switch on Elemental Aura" when people ask what to do as a Paladin at the Golem phase. That kind of reply can go un-noticed by a lot of people who need such information as well )

Dealing with mechanics on your own is primarily skill, knowledge and experience (and gear..). A key advantage of the guides that Chaos and Mon had put up for previous raids was showing the strategy the Freedom party themselves used to clear the content. Did they reject the possibility of other classes and strategies? I seriously don't see why we should hold ourselves responsible for the class discrimination practised by fools. On the other hand, it would be helpful for SOME people (the ones I personally write my guides for) to understand how to better deal with the raid through certain approaches. Whether they choose to do it or not is up to them... Another issue many exploration teams will run into is the burn at the Mino stage. It would be dumb to tell people to use whatever Cure skills they have. A more appropriate method could be to highlight all skills that Cure, and rank them according to order of effectiveness. Whatever people choose to use is up to them. The Merc SA skill (Sorry I forgot the name) + HoC works wonders in BDN as well. Where, when, and suggestions for using it is useful content for such a guide imo.

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Jul 7, 2014 6:53 am
Reply 20#  sieg_freedom

That's fine, you're free to speak your own opinion.

If you feel there are strategies that might be worth talking about and adding to the discussion, by all means be my guest and share as much info as you can. I won't stop you.

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Dragon Nest
NA DN - LvL 60 Ice Witch - RoseofLove
CDN - LvL 80 Elestra - RoseofLove
CDN - LvL 80 Gear Master - LilyofHope
CDN - LvL 80 Light Fury - EnvyEX
CDN - LvL 80 Raven - WrathEX
KDN - Lvl 80 Flurry - 장미Spear

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    Jul 7, 2014 7:14 am
    Reply 21#  Revertible

    ^^

    What I'm actually trying to highlight is that it is pointless to worry about class discrimination due to a guide written (even if in part) by you. While I understand the want to avoid class discrimination, it should be worthwhile to take some time to consider an alternative point of view.

    As a writer, who are you writing for? New players to the nest who are seeking assistance in doing the content, OR people who will take your word for the gospel truth? Which group of players do you think is worth writing for? Do you think that those who blindly discriminate based on certain examples are worth the effort and attention taken to avoid such a situation, when such a stance might result in people not getting educated about what they DO have to offer - if they could have learn of it.

    A player who thinks that "because I am class X, I should be guaranteed a spot" is just clueless. In most cases, those teams led by such people will not do well anyway. What does it matter if they discriminate? Case in point, I played an Abyss Walker and it wasn't all that popular then. Did it stop me from doing any bit of content? Was my gear in any way spectacular? People run with those they trust. I can guarantee a lot of the so called "discriminated" players don't even think about how to demonstrate their capabilities or to form a group of friends to do content together. They are too busy "being discriminated". (News flash for those people: it's not your class, it's you. Really. The truth hurts, but it's the truth)

    Yes, I have been discriminated against before. It isn't nice. It's stupid to say that it's hopelessly impossible to play the game as a discriminated class though = ="

    ______________________________________________________________

    Just to share my own case as an example. Due to my previous DDN Guide for Wild Parties, I had people writing in to me complaining that I was encouraging discrimination in their server. Guess what, those people are totally incapable of reading. The goal of my guide was to help position Freedom members to best allow them to partake in DDN content with the Chinese. How some people chose to interpret that information is none of my business, particularly when it didn't even specifically apply to them.

    I just feel that a raid specific guide should not shy away from naming classes/class-specific skills that highlight a particular strategy that can be used to clear content better. One example would be of Tempest using Hurricane Dance on Flower to buy a few extra seconds of DPS. Can WW do it? No. Does it mean that one must take a Tempest? = =" Another example would be using Spirit Boost for Eye of Life. Is it doable without Spirit Boost? Does it mean that we should ALWAYS have an Acro, or that an Acrobat will make life easier for us (reducing the risk level)

    Class discrimination can be left to the idiots who choose to indulge in it. Imo, as a guide writer, we should be writing specifically for the audience who can best benefit from what we have to share, and let idiots do their own things. Class discrimination from these guides is NOT OUR FAULT, it is entirely the business of those who blindly follow EVERYTHING because it is the ONE TRUE WAY (no it isn't ^^). If they fail to see that, just let them be.

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    Jul 7, 2014 7:34 pm
    Reply 20#  sieg_freedom

    I agree with Sieg. With all the current class revamps, every class has the ability to clear in a party. Every class has their advantages in BDN and in the end it is up to the players.

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    CDN - Level 70 Raven 看得到的影子
    Jul 7, 2014 11:46 pm
    My stats for people that are interested. Nothing too special, I consider myself pretty average geared in CDN.

    [img] [/img]

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    CDN - Level 70 Raven 看得到的影子
    Jul 8, 2014 6:15 am
    May i translate this guide for Thai? I'll give credits to you.Thanks in advance

    Jul 8, 2014 6:56 am
    Reply 25#  119.*.*.219

    Feel free to share this on other forums, I dont mind.

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      Jul 8, 2014 8:14 am
      Reply 22#  sieg_freedom

      I guess you're right Sieg.

      Guess i'll just go ahead and cover questions that people ask and if people some how get the idea of class discrimination, then i really won't care. Not my problem what they do with the information provided.

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      Dragon Nest
      NA DN - LvL 60 Ice Witch - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Elestra - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Gear Master - LilyofHope
      CDN - LvL 80 Light Fury - EnvyEX
      CDN - LvL 80 Raven - WrathEX
      KDN - Lvl 80 Flurry - 장미Spear

      Youtube Channel (RevertibleFate): http://www.youtube.com/user/RevertibleFate

      Brave Frontier
      Revert ( ID: 2211212567)
      Jul 9, 2014 10:15 am
      semi-unrelated question. Is the Black Dragon set crafted using Desert Dragon set parts?

      Jul 9, 2014 3:28 pm
      Reply 28#  Chocorroles

      Yep.

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      Dragon Nest
      NA DN - LvL 60 Ice Witch - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Elestra - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Gear Master - LilyofHope
      CDN - LvL 80 Light Fury - EnvyEX
      CDN - LvL 80 Raven - WrathEX
      KDN - Lvl 80 Flurry - 장미Spear

      Youtube Channel (RevertibleFate): http://www.youtube.com/user/RevertibleFate

      Brave Frontier
      Revert ( ID: 2211212567)
      Jul 11, 2014 10:46 pm
      revertible can i know the skill build for your eles?

      Jul 12, 2014 8:47 am
      Reply 30#  ferdelance

      Sorceress Build:

      http://puu.sh/6JFnD.jpg

      Ele Build:

      http://puu.sh/6JFoT.jpg

      Elestra Build:

      http://puu.sh/6JFpZ.jpg

      Wearing techs for Glacial Spike ( Cash weapon bonus) and Ice spear.

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      Dragon Nest
      NA DN - LvL 60 Ice Witch - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Elestra - RoseofLove
      CDN - LvL 80 Gear Master - LilyofHope
      CDN - LvL 80 Light Fury - EnvyEX
      CDN - LvL 80 Raven - WrathEX
      KDN - Lvl 80 Flurry - 장미Spear

      Youtube Channel (RevertibleFate): http://www.youtube.com/user/RevertibleFate

      Brave Frontier
      Revert ( ID: 2211212567)

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        Jul 14, 2014 9:29 pm
        [b]Reply [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20140703/Black_Dragon_Nest_Guide-53b5673ceb80e6c13-1.html#p53b57dcbb645f6]3#[/url] [i]freewins[/i][/b] [br] [br]
        Hi can i ask wat is the HP and def requirements for elestra
        when entering DBN thx plss help me

        Jul 19, 2014 3:02 am
        so mino stomp can iframe?

        Sep 16, 2014 11:39 am
        @ Who can help answer

        On dragon stage

        When Black Dragon cast Confuse (Then do circle bomb run , then stomp on last)

        Question : How to timing the stomp other than seeing the flashlight like in the video? (i have tried many2 times to see the flash light that never come out, surely because i set my video graphic option on low setting).

        Any help will be appreciate. Thx

        Sep 16, 2014 4:33 pm
        Is destro/barbarian 100% needed or can we just get the super armor from guardian force and not clear berserker statuses?

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        Sep 23, 2014 11:22 pm
        uhmm .. im a sniper and im having trouble on mino stage 3 when he does 180 swing .. BM classes are not so mobile to get behind mino easily when needed.. i try to always be behind boss so when he casts this it wont be a problem .. but i cant always be behind him right? any advice?

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          Sep 23, 2014 11:42 pm
          Reply 36#  112.*.*.80

          Under what scenario are you trying this? Your own positioning is however always the key.

          If in a party - Learn to coordinate with the tanker.
          If solo - Have your flower towards the middle of the map

          Iirc (it's been a long time since I ran this), you cannot i-frame this. So best not to try...

          The trick to many of the DN bosses is to stay close to them (ironically). This boss is actually quite easy to bait. This particular skill itself also has a small wind-up animation that you can learn to watch out for. Whoever is the main DPS (don't blame me if I think it's not the Sniper ^^) will be the one he does the short charge towards, then he will fire off his "half moon slash" towards the tank. (I could be wrong here, it's been months, but I recall using this method on ALL my characters) Since this charge is VERY different from his longish across the map charge, it's quite easy to tell. So get moving as soon as you see that charge and most importantly don't stay in the direction of the tank! (whether it is the flower or not)

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          Sep 25, 2014 3:08 am
          anon (9-23) here*

          thank you ser for the advice ( im playing with pt btw)
          we have reached the golem part but im always the first one to die on party due to that Mino's HMS but if i get pass that .. im usually fine thats why im desperate ..

          knowing that theres a wind up animation i didnt know ill try to observe more.
          about me not being main DPS, no problem there, i dont even see myself as a dps even if with good gears, just support. the reason i play sniper is because it requires a lot of patience and knowledge of your class's skills and the boss's skills too .. playing sniper and finishing raids is very satisfying because of this, low dps i dont care at least i have balls to play a very hard class :> #sniperpride :))

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          Sep 25, 2014 4:41 am
          Reply 38#  112.*.*.80

          You can see what I meant in my video here:



          13:38 and 14:32, both times the Mino charged towards me before firing HMS at the tank. ^^ That was the cue I used to read the attack anyway, worked for me on all the classes I used in BDN.

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