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Weapon Suffix Comparison: Intel vs Tent

Oct 27, 2012 9:10 pm
One of the key changes in T4 update is the inability to stack intelligent suffix from different players, which was deemed too powerful in T3 era.

This opens up  a few more interesting choice for weapon suffix as compared to T3 era, whereby everyone should just craft intel suffix.

Here a brief comparison between the intel and tent/adorned/curtain suffix are done.

INTEL SUFFIX

Int suffix can be crafted on both weapons, main and sub. The effect for either weapon is exactly the same. The intel debuff % increases when the enchantment level of your weapon goes beyond a certain level (+7, +10+ 11 for example).

Although the intel debuff applied by different players are not stackable, the 2 intel suffix debuff from both weapons held by the same person would still stack.


However, due to the inability of intel debuff from different players to stack with each other, there are some complication which arises from the use of intel suffix in T4. For example, there are 2 players in the party:

Player A: using a single 50S+10 intel weapon: -13.75% elemental def
Player B: using twin 50S+8 intel weapon: - 13.5% x 2 = 27% elemental def
Player C: using a single 50S+8 intel weapon: -13.5% elemental def

Scenario 1:
Player A applies his intel debuff on the boss first, causing a -13.75% elemental def on boss.
Player B try to trigger his intel debuff on the boss, but the single % effect on either of his weapon is lower than Player B and unable to apply the -27% elemental def on the boss.

Scenario 2:
Player B applies his intel debuff on the boss first, causing a 27% elemental def.
Player A or Player C triggers his intel debuff and overwrites the debuff applied previously by player B since the single % effect on his weapon is higher than or equal to player B. Only - 13.75% or -13.5% elemental def is applied on the boss.

Scenario 3:
Player C applies his intel debuff on the boss first, causing a 13.5% elemental def.
Player B triggers his intel debuff and overwrites the debuff applied previously by player B since the single % effect on his weapon is equal to player C. The elemental def debuff duration is refreshed and increased to 27%.

From the test conducted by chinese players  and myself in the above scenario, intel suffix seems to prioritize a single weapon with higher % or higher enchantment level. Meaning, someone with high enchantment single intel suffix can easily overwrite other's twin intel debuff and lower the overall debuff effect by half.

Three simple rules have been derived from the above test:
1) A weapon with Higher % or Equal % refreshes and overwrites the current debuff.
2) A weapon with Lower % cannot overwrite the current debuff induced by a Higher % weapon.
3) The % here refers to the highest effect % on a single weapon held by the player, NOT the total % in both weapons.


The test on the true nature of intel suffix are somewhat incomplete since it is unknown too if the rule depends on the % debuff or just the enchantment level.

However, given the possibility that you might cut the intel debuff effect applied by your teammate by half, it is not recommended to craft a single intel suffix on one of your weapon only, unless you are a solo player or when you are very sure none of your party member has twin intel suffix.

Under normal circumstance, one who uses intel suffix would use twin intel suffix instead of a single one.

The efficiency of intel suffix is enhanced if the target has high elemental defence, for example bosses in Desert Dragon Nest which have 40% to 80% elemental defence.

The graph below shows the % dmg increase due to twin intel suffix (-26.5% ele def) as a function of target's elemental defence:




For bosses with 50% ele def, the -26.5% debuff of intel suffix magnifies the dmg by 53%.  

For the boss with 80% ele def, the -26.5% debuff of intel suffix magnifies the dmg by 132% !


TENT/ADORNED/CURTAIN SUFFIX

This suffix only gains its popularity after T4, where crit dmg doesn't ignore defence. Unlike intel suffix, Tent suffix can only be crafted on the sub weapon. Similar to intel suffix, Tent suffix from different players are not stackable too.

Despite this handicap, the effect of tent suffix can be very powerful. See the char below for a dmg comparison for the 2 suffix
Twin intel suffix II + 0 :  - 26.5% elemental def
Single tent suffix II+0: - 30% mag def

The calculation for intel suffix is pretty straight forward.
D= damage without considering elemental def
E = elemental resist of target
Normal dmg without intel debuff = D * ( 1 - E )
Damage with intel debuff = D * ( 1 - E + 0.265)

The dmg calculation for tent suffix is very much different from intel suffix:

D = damage without considering defence
M = % mag def of target
Normal dmg without tent debuff = D * ( 1 - M)
Damage with tent debuff = D * ( 1 - 0.7*M)

The Y axis shows the dmg output per unit or 1 damage.

The X axis shows the dmg reduction from (mag) defence.


Logically, the dmg induced by both suffix reduces as the defence of the target increases.

Both suffix debuffs give higher dmg as compared to the original dmg.

The figure above has been re-plotted with the % dmg increase for both suffix:


Intel suffix offers a constant 26.5% dmg increase regardless of the defence of the target.

On the other hand, tent suffix offer a variable dmg increase depending on the target's def.

As noted, the tent suffix literally gives 0 % dmg increase if the target's defence is 0.

As the defence of the target increases, the % dmg increase offered by tent suffix increases.

The two lines intersect at 47%.

Beyond this point, the tent suffix generates very high dmg output increase.

Now, lets see which bosses have defence > 47% (take note that the defence % depends on the level of attacker):

Lv50 cap: Mag Def > 7050
Bishop Nest: Dark Shaman (1st stage), Golem Hujinos (Final Boss)
Gigantes Nest: Cube, Gigantes Maha (Final Boss)
Green Dragon Nest: White Eye Kraken (Stage 3), Kalahan (Stage 5), Green Dragon (Final Boss)

Lv60 cap: Mag Def > 14100
Desert Dragon nest: Desert Dragon Zakad only.

Well, despite the fact that tent suffix gives much higher dmg output in face of targets with high def, boss with such high defence does not exist in the nest at lvl60 cap except the Desert Dragon Zakad only. At lv50 cap however, tent suffix seems to be very good against the two lv50 nest final bosses (Bishop and Gigantes).

Tent suffix is extremely useful in 8-man nest such as GDN, but that's the place where tent suffix and intel suffix will have to work hand-in-hand.

A side note: in T4, intel suffix and likely other suffix effect CANNOT be affected by time accel and other cd reduction buff anymore.

CONCLUSION

Despite the fact that intel suffix is nerf in T4, it is still a very powerful suffix especially in 4-man nest. However, it is recommend that intel suffix should be crafted in pairs so that it minimizes the interference with other intel suffix users in your party.

Tent suffix will outshine intel suffix if the target has more than 47% of mag defence. However, such bosses rarely exist outside of 8-man nest at lvl60 cap. However, tent suffix can work together with intel suffix to increase the overall dmg output of the whole party, especially in the upcoming Desert Dragon Nest.  

Recommendation for general compatibility in 8-man nest:

Craft intel suffix x 2 if you are elemental users such as kali, alchemist, majesty etc.

[ Some ele use vigor suffix to maintain their shield; if so, do not craft intel on the other weapon ]

Craft tent suffix if you are a magical user but not elemental user  such as artillery, moonlord, smasher etc

If you are considering Agi suffix weapon, you can refer to a very good article written by "rosutosefi" on the comparison between Agi suffix and Tent/Iron Wall suffix :

http://forum.cherrycredits.com/topic/165592-informative-destmpow-irontent-or-wind/

Reference:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1738993901
http://dn.766.com/gx/zhiy/fs/1701583.shtml
http://dn.duowan.com/1206/203702141326.html


[ The post was edited by chaose5 at Dec 12, 2012 10:31 pm ]

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Totally +350 Points 

1 The_Only_7 +350 Points 2012-10-29 01:06:49 Nice guide. Repost on dn.mmosite.com  

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Oct 27, 2012 9:20 pm
Reply 0#  chaose5

Tent suffix can only be crafted on the main weapon

i think you mean off-hand.

very interesting read, waiting for you to finish =|

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    Oct 27, 2012 9:36 pm
    What keeps me away from using Tent is the fact that I don't know what to craft on my other weapon :| I'm afraid it may cause some sort of compatibly issues or just keep overwriting each other or something.

    I'm glad this guide exists. Looking forward the rest.

    Oct 27, 2012 11:28 pm
    Chaose I didn't realize this kind of guide wasn't put up here yet, I actually did abit of studying on this awhile back on the important suffixes that reduce specific defenses

    I feel this will help you complete your guide. Read through this thread, its been helpful

    http://dragonnest.nexon.net/community/forum#%2Fshowthread.php%3F535681-T4-suffix-testing-Sturdy

    page 1,2,4 have some good info

    P.S note

    Sturdy - is the iron wall

    Adorned - is tent


    [ The post was edited by AxisTrinity at Oct 28, 2012 2:06 am ]

    Oct 28, 2012 12:22 am
    what if player A"13.5%x2=27%" tried first to debuff a boss.. then player B"try to debuff a single 13.5% on the same boss.. is 27% will not be overwrite by  13.5%? and also what if vice versa.

    Oct 28, 2012 1:40 am
    Tent is chinese in?

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    Oct 28, 2012 3:01 am
    Reply 5#  cultkazuki

    帷幕

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      Oct 28, 2012 3:10 am
      Reply 4#  luknight

      i don't know...but i will run a few test in the next few days to check


      [ The post was edited by chaose5 at Oct 28, 2012 4:33 am ]

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      Oct 28, 2012 3:18 am
      Reply 6#  chaose5


      thanks you

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      Oct 28, 2012 5:23 am
      will a specific elem debuff like - ice resist stack with -elem resist debuff? or taken as separate entities or overwrite?... oh and alchemist's alcohol skill will stack with int right?... XD

      Oct 28, 2012 7:45 am
      hmmm but Intel increase 11% matk too for 10 secs, twin intel increase 22% (weapons +0)

      Oct 28, 2012 7:52 am
      I use 1 intellect main and 1 tent shield, since as a crusader I need base stats and -elemental. Sadly I also solo a lot lately, so I need tent.
      For DDN I'll probably switch to 2 INT or 2 magic weapons.

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        Oct 28, 2012 7:53 am
        Quote: Originally Posted by Vaahn Eon at Oct 28, 2012 5:23 am
        will a specific elem debuff like - ice resist stack with -elem resist debuff? or taken as separate entities or overwrite?... oh and alchemist's alcohol skill will stack with int right?... XD     
        Yes, up to -100%.

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        Oct 28, 2012 10:08 am
        Reply 10#  darklukas


        er, as far as i know, intel suffix has no such effect
        i believe you should be refering to the xx% magical dmg increase associated with the trigger of intel suffix.

        That effect simply applies for a single cast of skill/hit which triggers it and doesn't last for 10sec.

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        Oct 28, 2012 10:09 am
        Reply 9#  Vaahn Eon


        Logically, they should stack since they are different debuff to start with.

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        Oct 28, 2012 10:15 am
        Reply 11#  Tarkel

        yea, if you do solo run, int+ tent is indeed the best combination

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        Oct 28, 2012 10:41 am
        so for 8-man nest it should be tent/something else, and not tent/int?

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          Oct 28, 2012 8:31 pm
          I'm if i sound like a noob but i thought T4 intel doesn't stack, like if you have 2 intell suffix on main and off hand only one of those suffix will proc and not the other. Sorry kinda confused in this when i read it in the DN KR lvl 60 summary somewhere in the forums.

          Oct 28, 2012 8:34 pm
          Quote: Originally Posted by 121.*.*.196 at Oct 28, 2012 8:31 pm
          I'm if i sound like a noob but i thought T4 intel doesn't stack, like if you have 2 intell suffix on main and off hand only one of those suffix will proc and not the other. Sorry kinda confused in this when i read it in the DN KR lvl 60 summary somewhere in the forums.     
          They don't stack from DIFFERENT casters, but they stack on the SAME caster.
          Which means that 2 weapons of the same craft stack.

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          Oct 28, 2012 8:34 pm
          [quote]Quote: Originally Posted by 121.*.*.196 at Oct 28, 2012 8:31 pm
          I'm if i sound like a noob but i thought T4 intel doesn't stack, like if you have 2 intell suffix on main and off hand only one of those suffix will proc and not the other. Sorry kinda confused in this when i read it in the DN KR lvl 60 summary somewhere in the forums. [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20121027/Weapon_Suffix_Comparison_Intel_vs_Tent-508cb0539e0487b13-1.html#p508df8a37ca018][STB_STATIC_IMAGE_HOST]images/back.gif[/STB_STATIC_IMAGE_HOST][/url][/quote]Sorry about that it's supposed to be "sorry" not "i'm"

           

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