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Comparison between 5.8% Magic/Phy Attack and 8% Elemental Potential

Aug 24, 2011 1:24 pm
INTRODUCTION

Which weapon or ring potential is better ?

5.8% Phy/Mag Attack or 8% elemental attack potential?

This question has been asked many times in various threads and in my guides. I decided to do a comparison between the two potential based on my Majesty build.

Similar analysis can be performed on other characters, but i will not show all of them here. They follow the same logic.

If you are interested to do an analysis on your own char, download and modify the excel spread sheet below.

M.att and Elemental Attack v2.0

CALCULATION

First, let
m  = base mag attack of your Majesty
M = current mag attack % from potential, crest and fashion.
a =  skill amp (the skill % in your skill description)
b = additional damage ( the number after + in your skill description)
D = current dark attack of your Majesty

NOTE: base attack is NOT the attack stats you see in your character window.

Attack stats in character window = m x (1 + M)

[ My EXCEL spreasheet will take care of this for you. ]

Now, you have a choice to choose between a ring/weapon with 5.8% mag attack or 8% of dark attack.  

Lets find out, under what condition the following statement is TRUE:

Damage output with 5.8% m.att is LARGER than Damage output with 8% dark attack

This translates into the equation below:



The final equation states the condition for 5.8% m.att potential to be more superior than 8% elemental potential.

We shall define the right hand side of the equation as the Critical Dark %.

D > Critical Dark %

The equation tells us, that in order for 5.8% m.att potential to give more damage output than 8.0% elemental damage, D has to be LARGER than the Critical Dark %.

Critical Dark % is a function of skill amp (a), skill add. dmg (b) and current mag. att (m).


The table below gives you a list of all dark skills for majesty and their critical dark %, assuming current m.att = 4000 with current mag attack % = 23.60% (2 ring with 5.8%, a A-ranked plate, and a tail)



This shows very clearly that the critical dark % varies with different skills.


EXAMPLE

To make thing clearer, lets consider an example.

Lets say you currently has 80.0% dark attack, mag attack % of 23.60% and total of 4000 m.att.

1. Given a choice between 5.8% m.att and 8.0% dark attack, which one would maximize your damage for gravity lance?

Answer: 5.8% m.att
Reason: D, Current dark attack 80% > critical dark 77.62%

2. Given a choice between 5.8% m.att and 8.0% dark attack, which one would maximize your damage for gravity switch?

Answer: 8.0% dark elemental
Reason: D, Current dark attack 80% <  critical dark 98.14%

Note that the main DPS skills for Majesty: Gravity ball, Microholes and Poison Cloud, have extremely high Critical Dark %, which is almost out of reach with current gears.

CONCLUSION

This tells you that:

IN GENERAL, 8.0% DARK ELEMENTAL  IS SUPERIOR AS COMPARED TO 5.8% MAG ATTACK for Dark elemental skills.

On the flip side,

8.0% Dark elemental doesn't affect non-elemental skills such as Spectrum Shower and 9 Tail Laser or glacial spike (water element)

That's the reason why, i recommend a FULL DARK build for my majesty, without maxing non-dark skills (no spectrum shower, 9tail at lvl2, glacial spike at lvl1) , simply because a full dark build will maximize your Dark Potential %.

However, if you rely on spectrum shower, 9 tail laser or glacial spike for DPS, i would still ask you to consider 5.8% m.att since it will benefit those skills as well...
Also note that, 5.8% m.att might come with 17% crit opt , which is obviously better than 8% dark alone.

Having said all these, the so-call end game gear with S-rank Sea dragon weapon, will not even involve this tough choice: you can get 4.3% m.att AND 8% dark attack appearing on a single weapon/ring (very high chance).

Useful Link:
Chaos PVE Majesty Guide

APPENDIX:

Another case on my friend's Sniper choice of 5.8% phy attack or 8% elemental attack.

He is holding an old manticore bow, so most of his skills are dark-based.

His current dark attack is 76%.

Should he choose 8.0% dark elemental or 5.8% phy attack potential on say, a new ring?

According to his build and stats, the critical dark % are calculated as below:





According to him, his main DPS skills are charged shot, twin shot and ankle shot.

Although his dark attack is very high at 76%, his critical dark % for his 3 main DPS skills are still higher than that.

So to maximize the damage of his DPS skills, he should choose 8.0 dark %.

However, do note that 5.8% mag and phy potential comes with 17% crit sometimes, whereas it's impossible to get 8% elemental + 17% crit


[ The post was edited by v2seraph at Apr 9, 2013 1:06 am ]

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Aug 24, 2011 2:27 pm
o.o!!

Actually choosing either 5.8% phy/mag attack or 8% elemental attack is strongly depend on which class are you playing.

Example:
>Saint: normally 5.8% magical attack will be chosen to maximize the healing amount. However, an inquisitor would prefer 8% light attack as inquisitor are more attacking base instead of support.
>Majesty which choose dark skill build would prefer 8% dark attack compared to 5.8% magical attack. However, smasher would prefer 5.8% magical attack as only part of the skills are affected by dark attack.
>Elemental lord would prefer 8% fire/water attack.
>Most of physical attack based classes would prefer 5.8% physical attack.

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    Aug 25, 2011 12:12 pm
    Reply 1#  pikachu40

    mm okay but there no possibility ( i think ) to get crit 17% + elemental in 1 potential so that shud make an physical/magical + crit more effective then 8% elemental damage (depending on your crit of course) however to get the additional crit potential is very expensive

    Aug 25, 2011 12:22 pm
    I would like to add that if you factor in 20% damage from crest/heraldy, 'a' can be modified to become 1.2a, which further reduces the equilibrium points (or  critical dark % as you describe it). So yeah, dark att is almost always superior for majesty.

    For smasher, it's really hard to come out with a good balance without doing scenario research. Judging from the dps chart Chaos made, seems like most of smasher's dps still come from the dark tree. Not to mention arcane benefits dark skills more since they have lower amp % on skills.

    Aug 25, 2011 1:14 pm
    Quote: Originally Posted by indigna at Aug 25, 2011 12:22 pmI would like to add that if you factor in 20% damage from crest/heraldy, 'a' can be modified to become 1.2a, which further reduces the equilibrium points (or  critical dark % as you describe it). So yeah, dark att is almost always superior for majesty.

    For smasher, it's really hard to come out with a good balance without doing scenario research. Judging from the dps chart Chaos made, seems like most of smasher's dps still come from the dark tree. Not to mention arcane benefits dark skills more since they have lower amp % on skills.     
    The reason why i nvr include the 20% damage boost from heraldry is because, they are added on both side over the whole damage output (not on the amp part, a alone).

    1.2 (left hand side) > 1.2 (right hand side)

    both 1.2 will be cancelled out.

    For the same reason, i don't consider the Ex additional damage of Gravity ball or final damage in the equation.

    Arcane dmg amp on the other hand is applied to the m.att attack only (the amp part). So it will need to be included in the equation if ever someone tries to calculate it fo Smasher under Arcane (90sec cd =.=)


    [ The post was edited by chaose5 at Aug 25, 2011 1:41 pm ]

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    Aug 25, 2011 1:14 pm
    o.o!!

    S-rank items do have phy att, mag att, elemental attack and critical 17% all together inside one potential (but normally hard to get all in 1 potential). However, for A rank and below, either 5.8% phy/mag attack + crit or elemental attack can be obtained in 1 potential.

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    Aug 25, 2011 1:32 pm
    * updated another case on dark sniper ....

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      Aug 25, 2011 2:11 pm
      Oh sorry, I must have misread amp % as crest amp % before. Good to know that crest gives exact overall damage boost, way easier to calculate. ^^

      Sep 5, 2011 8:37 pm

      Your formula doesn't account for the fact you would have any Mattack % + already which is nearly impossible because of crests.

      The gain of that 5.8% isn't a pure gain and degrades as you get more, so the formula you have did not account for that. The threshhold for the 5.8% elemental to outdo the Mattack is actually higher then then what you theorized

      ~Pearz

      Sep 5, 2011 9:53 pm
      Very interesting data.

      Thank you for all the hard work you have invested into this Chaos!

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      Macchi: Level 50 Barbarian
      Sep 5, 2011 11:25 pm
      Quote: Originally Posted by 69.*.*.9 at Sep 5, 2011 8:37 pm
      Your formula doesn't account for the fact you would have any Mattack % + already which is nearly impossible because of crests.

      The gain of that 5.8% isn't a pure gain and degrades as you get more, so the formula  you have did not account for that. The threshhold for the 5.8% elemental to outdo the Mattack is actually higher then then what you theorized

      ~Pearz     
      Thanks for pointing that out ....

      i have included M, current mag attack % in the new calculation.

      The new equation reduces to the old equation when M=0 (as you have pointed out)


      [ The post was edited by chaose5 at Sep 5, 2011 11:55 pm ]

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      Sep 6, 2011 12:10 pm
      Your equation finds out what Dark % needs to be to use matk% but as soon as you switch to matk% your Dark % drops. So you should be isolating for M attk% instead of Dark%. Though i guess this formula would be useful if you had uber high dark%.

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        Sep 6, 2011 1:36 pm
        Quote: Originally Posted by Windfore at Sep 6, 2011 12:10 pmYour equation finds out what Dark % needs to be to use matk% but as soon as you switch to matk% your Dark % drops. So you should be isolating for M attk% instead of Dark%. Though i guess this formula would be useful if you had uber high dark%.     
        Hmm, very easy to solve this problem.

        Assume that you are not changing the opt, but adding a new op to one of ur ring/weapon.

        So your current % dark won't drop at all.

        If you are considering about changing the opt, just calculate the stats without the existing 5.8% or 8% on the item that you are about to change with no modification to the formula. Simple as that..

        Erm, without this formula, you won't not even know about the fact that m.att % should only be used if you have very high dark % isn't it ^_^. The equation define the very definition of "high dark attack" because the question of "how high is high enough" is often wondered.

        FYI,  the highest % elemental attack obtainable at current cap is 100%+.

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        Sep 21, 2011 12:35 am
        The good thing about dark attack on Snipers is that, it benefits both the physical and magical spells. Since you're increase both phy and mag damage at the same time (most of the BM spells are dark).

        Because it's too difficult to find an old Manticore bow, I'll be going with new Manticore and aiming to maximize my phy/agi/crit/vit; not sure if I'll be doing less DPS than a dark Sniper though hmm...

        Sep 21, 2011 7:11 am
        Quote: Originally Posted by Yanoflies at Sep 21, 2011 12:35 amThe good thing about dark attack on Snipers is that, it benefits both the physical and magical spells. Since you're increase both phy and mag damage at the same time (most of the BM spells are dark).

        Because it's too difficult to find an old Manticore bow, I'll be going with new Manticore and aiming to maximize my phy/agi/crit/vit; not sure if I'll be doing less DPS than a dark Sniper though hmm...     
        that's using the old manticore weapon.. which shouldn't be considered anymore since they're getting extinct..

        Oct 13, 2011 2:29 am
        How do you calculate base mattk? :| Isit the min-max mattk added together? :) This is a good article btw [SMILE=3]

        Oct 13, 2011 2:41 am
        no...

        as pointed out in the article, whatever min n max m.att you see in your stats window is NOT your base attack.

        Attack stats in character window = m x (1 + M)

        where m = base m.att
        M = watever % multiplier from plate and gear potential.

        Therefore,

        Base m.att, m = attack value in stats window / ( 1 + M )

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        Even if i stand to lose everything, I'll preserve your memory for the tomorrows yet to be. Come what may. I could breathe my last breath, and the world be crumbling into oblivion.

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        Class: Lv 60 Smasher
        Guild: Freedom

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          Oct 13, 2011 3:09 am
          awesome chaos5! Thank you for your patience. Where do you see current dark attack? :| Your excel needs to be update btw.. but i can put in the new values ^^ haha.

          Oct 13, 2011 3:38 am
          Quote: Originally Posted by 121.*.*.144 at Oct 13, 2011 3:09 amawesome chaos5! Thank you for your patience. Where do you see current dark attack? :| Your excel needs to be update btw.. but i can put in the new values ^^ haha.     
          ops, thanks for reminding me...

          updated the new link for the v2.0 excel sheet.

          dark attack% can be seen at the second page of your char stats window.

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          Even if i stand to lose everything, I'll preserve your memory for the tomorrows yet to be. Come what may. I could breathe my last breath, and the world be crumbling into oblivion.

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          Age of Wulin
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          Oct 13, 2011 10:24 am
          [quote]Quote: Originally Posted by [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/member/info/396347/2]chaose5[/url] at Oct 13, 2011 2:41 am
          no...

          as pointed out in the article, whatever min n max m.att you see in your stats window is NOT your base attack.

          Attack stats in character window = m x (1 + M)

          where m = base m.att
          M = watever % multiplier from plate and gear potential.

          Therefore,

          Base m.att, m = attack value in stats window / ( 1 + M ) [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20110824/Comparison_between_58_MagicPhy_Attack_and_8_Elemental_Potential-4e555dfd65b89e913-1.html#p4e96b2437cbd8f][STB_STATIC_IMAGE_HOST]images/back.gif[/STB_STATIC_IMAGE_HOST][/url][/quote]
          But which of the two?Min or max did you take into accoutn?

           

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