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Research and Details on Majesty/Force User Skill [updated with SA break table ]

Jun 6, 2011 11:11 am
Research and Details on Majesty/Force User Skill by chaose5 is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

This is an in-depth guide and research on Majesty and Force User skills. Hope it will help players to build a good force user / majesty.

Before proceeding further, it is important to clarify some important concept in damage calculation.

First, how is skill damage calculated in game?

Here i will only show the formula for crit damage because crit damage ignores defence of the target. Therefore, crit damage will be exactly the same regardless of the target you hit, assuming that all targets have the same elemental resist/weakness and at same level (the effect of final damage has to be taken into account if level gap exists).

The formula for skill damage is defined as follows:

Skill Damage = 1.25 * Skill Coeff * (%Amp * M.att + Add. Dmg) * (1+% Elemental Att)* (1- % Elemental Resist) * (% Aditional damage)

I will explain the formula term by term:
1.25 : 1.25 is the crit damage multiplier applied if crit happen.
Skill Coefficient: Will be explain subsequently.
%Amp: % of skill amplification in the skill description.
M.att: Your magic attack in stats window.
Add. Damage: Additional damage in the skill description.
% Elemental Att: Elemental Att % in your skill window.
% Elemental Resist: Elemental Resist % of the target. Positive number for resist, negative number for weakness.
% Additional Damage: Any additional damage due to other buff/debuff/skill plate/final damage etc.

Skill Coefficient

Skill coefficient is a hidden factor for a certain skill. It is the number that relates the so-called "board damage" which is the damage quoted in the skill description, to the ACTUAL TOTAL DAMAGE generated when you hit your target.

The skill coefficients for most force user/majesty skills are normally 1, some of the exception are highlighted in the table below.

After the total skill damage is calculated, each hit figure will be determined based on the skill nature. The following table describes how each hit is calculated and being displayed as IN-GAME DAMAGE FIGURES.  





Skill Ranking

After understanding the damage calculation, now it's time to ranked all the skills we have.

There are many ways to rank the skills. Normally, we would like to know how fast we can deal damage to a certain target in game, or in other words, we are interested to know what is the DPS (damage per second) for a certain skill.

There are two major ways to define DPS.

First way, we can define it by taking the total damage divided by the cooldown (CD) of the skill.

DPS = Damage / Cooldown

This definition of DPS basically tells you how much damage you can do per second over the cooldown period if you cast that skill IMMMEDIATELY after it is cooldown.
In other words, you are spreading the total damage over the whole cooldown period. This definition is suitable to quantify the damage you can deal over a longer duration of time (e.g. over the whole dungeon).

A second way to define it, is by taking the total damage divided by the casting time of the skills.

DPS = Damage / Casting Time

This definition of DPS tells you how much damage you can do per second during the casting time of that skill. In other words, you are spreading the total damage over the casting time. This definition is suitable to quantify the burst of damage in a short amount of time and assuming that the cooldown is neglible (e.g. under time acceleration).

Both definitions have their own implications and meanings. Both are well-accepted by players in this game. However, you will find that Damage/Cd is more commonly cited as it can be easily determined because the cooldown is clearly written in the skill description.

Finding the casting time requires some extra work; however, i have done it with some video analysis softwares based on videos taken in game.

The DPS rankings are as follows

Damage / Cooldown Ranking:





Damage/ Casting Time Ranking:





Important Note:
1. The damage figures are calculated based on 5500 Max Magic Att, 30% Dark and Water Elemental Attack.
2. The ranking will varies depending on your own stats.
3. The ranking is based on the skills at max lvl with lvl50 cap.


You can check the ranking for various stats with the excel spreadsheet that i have uploaded.

http://www.mediafire.com/?55zu2rlbhe81628


There are other useful ways to rank the skills too in terms of SP economy.

For example, you can rank the skill according Damage/CD/SP or Damage/Casting Time/SP, which has very clear meaning. Those 2 indicators directly tell you how much DPS you get per SP invested. Obviously, you should be investing SP on those skills which give high DPS/SP. The ranking for those 2 indicators are not presented here because they can be easily calculated with the spreadsheet i provide.

I would like to introduce an indicator which encompass both aspects: Casting time and Cooldown. The absolute value of the indicator is actually meaningless, but the relative magnitude of this indicator provides us with a bearing if a certain skill is worth maxing out as compared to other skills.

DPS/SP = Damage/SP/SQRT(Casting Time * Cooldown)

The last term, SQRT(Casting Time * Cooldown) is the geometric mean for the casting time and cooldown.

[ to be updated ]

Superarmor (SA) Break
Each hit of a skill has a certain hidden Superarmor (SA) break value attached to it.  A chinese player from duowan attempted to measure this value. His method is

1. Go to East Armory Abyss (lotus marsh dungeon).
2. Wait for the Mimic boss to spit gold coins
3. Attack Mimic with a certain skill while he is doing that.
4. Measure the reduction in SA bar for the Mimic.

NOTE #1: SA value on boss changes when he cast different skills. So it is important to measure it when he is casting this skilll ONLY so that we can have a fair comparison between skills
NOTE #2: The SA bar length on screen is measured in milimetre (mm). The real length will vary if your monitor size is different. The full lenght of SA bar from his screen is 90mm. You can scale it accordingly to fit your screen.
NOTE #3: It really doesn't matter what is the aboslute value and units of SA break value. Use the SA Break value as a relative comparison between skills.

The table below shows the SA bar length reduction in mm, when Mimic is hit with certain skills, while spitting coins.





NOTE: Gravity Ascension is not shown in the Table because it can't be measured in this test. This skill forces the boss skills to be cancelled. To measure the SA break for this skill, a boss which is IMMUNE to the forced knockdown effect must be tested (not conducted).

However, from testing it on breaking pillar in bishop hellmode, gravity ascension total superarmor break value is even higher than gravity switch (>50).

Why should i know about SA break?

SA break is an important aspect of in PVE and PVP. In PVP, high superarmor break skill allows you to break your opponent's skill casting and knockdown/knockback/float your opponent.

In PVE, there are also many situation where you will need to know this, i will list afew examples here:

Apocalypse Nest (normal/hellmode): the electric ogre has a tackling/hugging skill at his last HP bar. To break this skill, you will need to use high SA break skill fast or the person being hug will be KO-ed

Sea Dragon Nest: The vine bind of monta at stage 6 and the ice bind of sea dragon can be broken if you use high SA break skills. The vine bind will deal 50k+ dmg and ice bind will deal 110k+ damage if no one manage to save them.  Also, stage 5 dancing bull, will require you to break down alot of pillars on the field.

Archbishop Nest (normal/hellmode): You will be required to break some pillars at stage 4 and 5 in very short time. Failure to break 6 pillars in 10sec at stage 5 for example, will cause you to miss the final crown chest. Also, the Archbishop boss itself, can only be damaged after you break his SA after his second bar of HP.

Green Dragon Nest: You will need to break up to 4 pillars in green dragon battle. Failure to do so in the specified time will result in total anniliation! Also, you will need to save your team members from Vine Grip with superarmor break skills too. After 5.25x hp, the superarmor for the Head of Green Dragon can be reduced with high superarmor break skill. Breaking his head superarmor cause the dragon to faint.

Reference:
http://dn.duowan.com/1108/178713270598_4.html


[ The post was edited by chaose5 at Feb 18, 2012 12:00 am ]

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Jun 6, 2011 3:53 pm
I love you for giving us all these information. Thanks for your hard work, chaos. We all appreciate it.

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IGN:LadyOfAce, Queen
Class:Majesty, Elemental Lord -> Salena
Level: 50,47
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    Jun 6, 2011 6:53 pm
    Amazing work! This will be used.

    Jun 6, 2011 6:59 pm
    Seems that dark tree is generally win over light tree in term of DPS.

    Based on the description u wrote for nine-tail laser, the 18 hits seems to give coefficient of 2.8 instead of 1

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    Dragon Nest CN
    Server: 华中电信二区 (4th row 5th server)
    怒炎苍龙 (Lv60 Elestra) in Freedom
    粉红色的羊 (Lv60 Guardian) in ArchAngel

    Jun 6, 2011 7:50 pm
    Quote: Originally Posted by dragon431 at Jun 6, 2011 6:59 pmSeems that dark tree is generally win over light tree in term of DPS.

    Based on the description u wrote for nine-tail laser, the 18 hits seems to give coefficient of 2.8 instead of 1     
    Erm read carefully, it is still 1.

    The touch damage is 2/9 of the explosive damage not 2/9 of the board damage. haha

    So it's 9 * 1/11 +  9* 1/11 * 2/9 = 1

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    Jun 6, 2011 8:15 pm
    OIC

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    Aug 10, 2011 1:24 pm
    11th Aug Update on the guide:

    * Gravity Switch skill description update: I have found out why gravity switch can deal 4 hits sometimes.

    Basically if the monster/target is unliftable, you will get 3 lifting hits and 1 heavy hits.

    If the monster is liftable, you will only get 2 lifting hits and 1 heavy hits.

    Another interesting findings, is that the skill coefficient of gravity switch is 1.25 against unliftable targets such as big bosses and monster which are rooted to the ground (flower etc).

    This make gravity switch NO.  1 in the ranking of damage/casting Time!

    Also, this make G.Switch rises above Spectrum Shower max and  9 tail laser max in damage/casting time AND damage/cooldown!

    This completely shows that Gravity Switch is far superior than max Spectrum Shower and max 9 tail laser. Just a reminder, the above number are calculated by assuming only 42.9% dark damage. Gravity Switch will definitely out damage spectrum if your dark % is higher than that.

    * Another important update is with regard to recent nerf in gravity ball EX ( cut from 60% to 40% additional dmg).

    The ranking of Gball EX changes abit.

    Gravity ball EX drop 2 places to 3rd place in terms of damage/casting time, however still retain its top position as the best damage/cooldown skills.

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      Aug 10, 2011 6:51 pm
      excellent work ! as always ;)

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      IGN : ☆Applz ][Main] / ⊙Applz⊙
      Class : Majesty / DarkArt
      Level : 50 / 50
      Server: 华中电信二区,4 凌波微步
      Guild : FREEDOM
      Aug 25, 2011 2:28 am
      Hi there, just wanted to say thanks to all the guides you've made, it really helped me as to decide how to play and build my mystic on NA DN.

      I have a few questions in regarding to damage formula. Are skill coefficients the adjustment for when the entire array of attack hits the enemy. Most apparent example will be microhole. The total skill damage that you calculate assumes all 18 hits are connected, is that correct? Because it's not very practical for microhole to even hit more than 10 times, the third hole is usually out of the range on big bosses. Same as poison cloud, bosses tend to move away, which means half of the cloud is wasted. On normal mobs these skills are fine and are great aoe skills, but I'm trying to figure out which skills are best on 1vs1 pve mobs, especially bosses. Gravity switch and gravity ball are two of the top skills, no doubt, just trying to see if getting crests for microhole or poison cloud is even worth it. Might opt for gravity switch and time acceleration crests instead.

      Also, you put down that elemental and final damage multipliers are multiplicative, but in your excel spreadsheet, they're additive. It might be hard to test out with 5% final damage, do you think you can test out or have friends to test out with say 100% final damage on level 16 mob with 30%+ dark att, the answer should be obvious since 2.6x and 2.3x multipliers are a huge gap. Thanks~

      Aug 25, 2011 2:45 am
      Quote: Originally Posted by indigna at Aug 25, 2011 2:28 amHi there, just wanted to say thanks to all the guides you've made, it really helped me as to decide how to play and build my mystic on NA DN.

      I have a few questions in regarding to damage formula. Are skill coefficients the adjustment for when the entire array of attack hits the enemy. Most apparent example will be microhole. The total skill damage that you calculate assumes all 18 hits are connected, is that correct? Because it's not very practical for microhole to even hit more than 10 times, the third hole is usually out of the range on big bosses. Same as poison cloud, bosses tend to move away, which means half of the cloud is wasted. On normal mobs these skills are fine and are great aoe skills, but I'm trying to figure out which skills are best on 1vs1 pve mobs, especially bosses. Gravity switch and gravity ball are two of the top skills, no doubt, just trying to see if getting crests for microhole or poison cloud is even worth it. Might opt for gravity switch and time acceleration crests instead.

      Also, you put down that elemental and final damage multipliers are multiplicative, but in your excel spreadsheet, they're additive. It might be hard to test out with 5% final damage, do you think you can test out or have friends to test out with say 100% final damage on level 16 mob with 30%+ dark att, the answer should be obvious since 2.6x and 2.3x multipliers are a huge gap. Thanks~     
      Yes, you are right.

      * The damage coefficient is caclulated by assuming the maximum possible damage output when all hits connect.

      For example, the total damage 3 ball of microholes is 3 x when all the 3 ball hits. Similarly, for poison cloud yes.

      In a way, you are right. Microhole at most deal 2 x (when only 2 balls hit) on mid-size bosses.

      However, when you see the final nest bosses like cerberus, manticore, apocalypse and sea dragon in the future, you will be able to deal the full 3 x damage on them EASILY because they are simply too huge!  Final bosses are generally large except for Geraint in Darklair R36.

      Final bosses stage is where your DPS really counts, because you don't really nid such a strong DPS for the small bosses/mobs anyway, in my opinion. Even against mid-size mini-bosses, you will be getting 2 x coefficient anyway, which i think is good enough.

      As for poison cloud, yes, for mobile bosses, it will not deal full damage.

      However, bosses like Sea Dragon and Monta in Sea Dragon Nest aren't really mobile. They stay at exactly the same spot most of the time. As for manticore and apocalypse (hellmode), they can be fainted easily and again, stay at the same place most of the time while fainting...

      Therefore, i would still go for microholes and poison cloud crest based on the above reason.

      Of course, if you looking at the DPS for bosses of various sizes (from small to large), then probably you should look at other crests, such as time acceleration and gravity swithc etc. I am currently considering gravity switch crest too, due to its extreme power versus boss of various size (especially large ones).

      Time acceleration is almost the single reason why force user are being partied in sea dragon nest and other high level nest. So making a crest to use it as often as you can, could be invaluable too.

      However, do check out the effect of time acceleration crest because i remember that the % cd reduction for the crest is very small.

      Another reason why i never opt for this crest and probably never will, is that i will not cast time acceleration once it is cooldowned. Time acceleration is cast normally at very specific timing, to boost dps and not randomly. So the CD reduction crest might prove useless after all.

      For example, in manticore boss fight, i will only time accelerate when the manticore is fainted. You certainly don't want manticore to fly away after you time accelerate. For archbishop final boss fight, i will only time accelerate when the golem is fainted and everyone move to the top of the boss.

      Hope they release the extra heraldry slots (3 more slots below the heraldry page) so that i can put gravity switch crest in without removing my old crest. Poison and microholes crest aren't exactly cheap you see, haha. Feel reluctant to destroy them.


      * Final damage and elemental damage is multiplicative indeed (tested by many). I made a mistake in my excel spreadsheet. Thanks alot for pointing that out. Will correct it and repost it soon. Glad that someone actually go into checking the details because i tend to make silly mistakes sometimes.


      [ The post was edited by chaose5 at Aug 25, 2011 3:10 am ]

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      Aug 25, 2011 9:54 am

      Thanks for the quick reply.  I agree on your views on the skills and time acceleration argument, I will just have to wait and see till the big bosses are out to make my adjustment.

      Also, one more question, do you use gravity lance a lot after blink? Or do you think it's better only if your core skills are on CD? Thanks in advance once again.

      Aug 25, 2011 11:28 am
      Quote: Originally Posted by indigna at Aug 25, 2011 9:54 am
      Thanks for the quick reply.  I agree on your views on the skills and time acceleration argument, I will just have to wait and see till the big bosses are out to make my adjustment.

      Also, one more question, do you use gravity lance a lot after blink? Or do you think it's better only if your core skills are on CD? Thanks in advance once again.     
      I blink alot in battle, not because i do it on purpose, but i do it to avoid damage/boss skill etc.

      The gravity lance/force wave is just cast after blink since it's very fast anyway, to give some additional damage.

      I never really cast gravity lance for the purpose of dps, if i have other core skills....

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        Sep 1, 2011 8:21 am
        can u post the best pvp and best pve skill build?? plsss ;) thankyou so much

        Sep 26, 2011 1:22 am
        [b]Reply [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20110606/Research_and_Details_on_MajestyForce_User_Skill-4ded185ed5af3ca13-1.html#p4e5fa2eebf496f]12#[/url] [i]121.*.*.53[/i][/b] [br] [br]
        what is your formula for per skill level aka sp?

        Sep 26, 2011 7:01 am
        Quote: Originally Posted by 98.*.*.236 at Sep 26, 2011 1:22 am
        Reply 12#  121.*.*.53


        what is your formula for per skill level aka sp?     
        I don't understand your question... rephase? elaborate?

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        Oct 2, 2011 8:04 pm
        [b]Reply [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20110606/Research_and_Details_on_MajestyForce_User_Skill-4ded185ed5af3ca13-1.html#p4e8085cf4e0113]14#[/url] [i]chaose5[/i][/b] [br] [br]
        I think it would be useful to see how much DPS auto-attacks do at that level and compare that to the abilities.

        Oct 3, 2011 12:33 am
        Quote: Originally Posted by 68.*.*.131 at Oct 2, 2011 8:04 pm
        Reply 14#  chaose5


        I think it would be useful to see how much DPS auto-attacks do at that level and compare that to the abilities.     
        Auto attack dps is rather high actually....you can check for my friend's research on elemental lord , where he highlighted the DPS for auto attack.

        However, auto attack has a serious flaw : very limited AOE.

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          Oct 3, 2011 3:29 pm

          this was also assuming that bossing was the only thing that mattered though.

          Of course, aoe spells are supposed to be more effective in aoe situations, but its worth noting single target dps, since many bosses end up that way.

          Also, what monsters were you using as a target dummy for testing?

          Oct 3, 2011 9:57 pm
          Quote: Originally Posted by 68.*.*.131 at Oct 3, 2011 3:29 pm
          this was also assuming that bossing was the only thing that mattered though.

          Of course, aoe spells are supposed to be more effective in aoe situations, but its worth noting single target dps, since many bosses end up that way.

          Also, what monsters were you using as a target dummy for testing?     
          erm, doesn't really matters what target...

          crit damage is the same, no matter what target you are hitting........

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          Oct 5, 2011 8:33 am
          Hmm... I was just wondering whether it's worth getting Lvl 9 Summon Comet instead of spending SP in Gravity Lance and Force Wave. IMO, Force Wave is rather useless in PvE and you can live without Gravity Lance (though i suppose it is a rather nice skill xD). Spending SP anywhere else seems like a waste... (Lvl 7 Gravity Ancension).

          I don't have any experience using 24> skills, so... not sure whether summon comet is a core'ish skill or not >.<.

          NB: Same build as your PvE Guide, just no spectrum (no extra 10 SP).

           

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