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Chaos PVE Majesty Guide

Mar 30, 2012 9:22 pm
Reply 1179#  ColdFlaMes17

Hehe, this is a good question.

I have the answer all along but too lazy to publish it.. since you are asked for it now....

[ The following calculation no longer applies after T4 crit mechanism revamp ]

Here it goes:

First, let

a = skill amp (the skill % in your skill description)
b = additional damage ( the number after + in your skill description)
c = base crit

C = current crit % on all your gears/plate/title/potential
D = current elemental attack % on all your gears/title/potential
M = mag attack
R = damage reduction due to defence

Lets assume that crit cap for lvl50 is 18000 and crit % is capped at 90% (which give nicer numbers at the end, rather than 89%)

We know that, the higher the target defence is, the more effective crit potential % become.

The point of this derivation is to answer this question:

what is the threshold for the defence, so that the damage of 17% crit potential is higher than 8% elemental attack?

Start with the statement:

Damage of 17% crit potential > Damage of 8% elemental attack



Therefore in order for the statement " Damage of 17% crit potential > Damage of 8% elemental attack" to be true, R (which is the dmg reduction due to defence) must be smaller than a certain value.

In otherwords, the defence of monster/boss will have to be larger than a certain threshold value in order for the statement to be true. I shall call that threshold value as R threshold.

For lv50 char,



For lv40 char,


Here, i will again use my lv50 majesty stats as an example to illustrate the calculation to get the Threshold R value.

Again, i shall use gravity ball lv12 as benchmark


Case 1:
a = 2.69
b = 3760
c = 11000

C = 26.5%
D = 48%
M = 8900


X = aM+b = 27701
Y = 1+D= 1.48
Z = 1+C = 1.265



You will get R threshold = 63.5%

So in order words, if the target that i am attacking has a mag defence value higher than 63.5% or 9525, it would be more effective to get 17% crit rather than 8% dark attack.

Apparently, green dragon and Kalahan are the few bosses which has over 9525 mag defence (both have 9900 mag def). The average boss defence for GDN is 7420,  well below the threshold defence value.

R average for GDN = 49.47% (which is equivalent to 7420 mag def)

R average < R threshold

So, it seems that overall in GDN, i would do better with 8% dark elemental, although 17% crit would give me more DPS during the battle with the 2 final bosses.

But wait, we are forgetting 2 very important factor before making this conclusion. Yes, if you are following my post, you will realize these VERY IMPORTANT points:

i) Crit cap for lvl50 is 18000.
ii) Mercenary has a crit buff which allows you to hit crit cap, if your crit is at least 13000.

Do take note of these 2 restrictions when you are planning the build of your gear. Make sure that after calculation, your crit doesn't go over these limit or the stats will be wasted.

Case 2
Just to be fair, i will also illustrate another example whereby 17% crit is better than 8% dark elemental. This is the case where my base crit is much lower (if i use other rings instead of crit ring)

For simplicity, i will keep all the variable above unchanged, while setting

c= 6000

Therefore, R threshold = 45% (which is equivalent to 6750)

R average for GDN = 49.47% (which is equivalent to 7420 mag def)

R average > R threshold  

So, in this case, if my base crit were much lower, it would be better if i get 17% crit , as compared to 8% dark elemental.

Conclusion
Don't worry if you don't understand the mambo jumbo which i have said above.

To make a decision, you only need to check and calculate the following:
i) R threshold
ii) R average

If R average < R threshold , 8% dark is better
If R average > R threshold, 17% crit is better.

Simple as that ^_^

Tips:
To make your life easier,

Average def for SDN bosses = 4418

R average for SDN = 49% if you are lvl40, 29.45% if you are lvl50

It is indeed very interesting to see that R average is the same for GDN and SDN with lv50 and lvl40 players respectively (maybe it is purposely tuned so)


[ The post was edited by chaose5 at Sep 2, 2012 4:05 am ]

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Mar 30, 2012 11:19 pm
Reply 1180#  chaose5

is the base crit the combined critical given by your equips plus the original crit?

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    Mar 31, 2012 12:32 am
    Reply 1181#  ColdFlaMes17

    Here base crit refers to:

    Base crit = Crit Stats Shown  / (1 + sum of crit % on all gear/plate)

    For example,

    The crit value shown in my status window is 14300.

    I got a plate with 20% crit inc and fashion crit increase of 6.5%

    So my base crit = 14300 / (1+0.2+0.065) = 11304

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    Mar 31, 2012 4:32 am
    i followed the formula for the Lvl 40 R Threshold and i get 0.60239 but if i multiply that by 100% then i get 60.24% is that right? :D

    here are the variables i used:
    a = 2.59
    c = 5167
    Y = 1.54
    Z = 1.2722

    Mar 31, 2012 5:38 am
    Reply 1183#  ColdFlaMes17

    yup.

    That means, 8% dark more suitable for you, at least at lvl40 cap ^_^

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    Mar 31, 2012 7:04 am
    Reply 1184#  chaose5

    ayt! thanks

    but then again, M.Attack - INT/AGI - Crit - MP Recovery pote is a different story

    Mar 31, 2012 7:34 am
    Reply 1185#  ColdFlaMes17



    yup. haha, that kind of potential is kinda like a cheat anyway... not everyone can afford it =.=

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      Mar 31, 2012 4:25 pm
      Reply 1186#  chaose5

      one more thing, are the numbers in the parentheses (when you hover the mouse in the critical info) the amount of crit given by your equipments? or is it the original critical?

      Mar 31, 2012 10:23 pm
      So Chaos, for the Sea Dragon nest, are the dark tree skills on a mystic beyond triple orbs useful? Like if I am making a 40 cap PVE build solely oriented around the sea dragon nest, which moves should I leave out or opt to get?

      Does gravity crush or lv 5 comet ever become necessary skills at any of the stages like in manticore nest?

      Mar 31, 2012 11:28 pm
      Reply 1188#  JohnTheMan

      erm, actually the skills beyond triple orb are not really that useful in SDN.

      if you have gravity ball of manticore, you probably won't need summon comet/gravity crush to break the vine grip (stage 6) and ice bind (dragon battle).

      check out the 2nd lv40 build which i post in the guide.

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      Apr 1, 2012 12:08 am
      Reply 1187#  ColdFlaMes17

      It is in this format:

      bare naked stats ( + additional stats granted by your gear/plate/fashion etc)

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      Apr 1, 2012 5:23 am
      Reply 1190#  chaose5

      thanks! :D

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        Apr 3, 2012 7:11 am
        hi chaose, can i ask whats the debuff duration of force mirror? can the debuff even stay on the enemy even if the mirror has already expired? thanks alot..

        Apr 3, 2012 8:11 pm
        greetings!i just want to ask how good a lvl 13 glacial spike is with a pure pve majesty w/ full dark gears?

        Apr 3, 2012 8:16 pm
        Reply 1193#  203.*.*.50

        very good ^_^.

        ~45% chance to freeze per cast (assuming 3 hits per cast), each freeze last 4sec.

        it is quick becoming the mainstream build here, to have lvl13 glacial spike due to the demand for high dmg in GDN.

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        Apr 4, 2012 1:59 am
        [b]Reply [url=http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20101111/Chaos_PVE_Majesty_Guide-4dac375f362242413-60.html#p4f7bbcff0e10eb]1194#[/url] [i]chaose5[/i][/b] [br] [br]hi why is it that u propose in your build to level poison missile to 16 ? i do have epic 20% dmg poison missile equipped . which will deal better damage ? lv 16 ice or poison ?
        is it advisable to level both up to replace the sp for mana mastery ?

        if sdn comes to SEA at lv 40 ( be it nerfed or unnerfed ) , what accessories will best suit in order to survive and deal damage if i havent reach the crit cap ?

        Apr 4, 2012 3:02 am
        Reply 1195#  175.*.*.111

        well, currently, i am looking at unlearning poison to get glacial spike instead.

        It would be good if i can get both to max, but at lvl50 cap, this is pretty hard due to the lack of sp.

        See here for more info on my research of FU skills:
        http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/217/20110606/Research_and_Details_on_MajestyForce_User_Skill-4ded185ed5af3ca13-1.html


        I shall list the pros and cons for glacial spike and poison below, and let you judge on your own which one is good for you:

        Poison
        Pro:
        - benefit from the dark % which you would definitely stack , as a force user
        - damage / cast time is roughly the same as glacial spike, assuming very big targets.
        Cons:
        - damage/ cooldown is lower than glacial spike.
        - the dmg is often overestimated because not all the poison puddles will deal full dmg to the target, especially small and mobile one.

        Glacial Spike
        Pro:
        - ability to freeze, increase the dmg by 1.5x for you and your party member.
        - damage/cast time is roughly the same as poison, assuming very big targets.
        - damage/cooldown is better than poison
        - the low skill amp % causes it to benefit more from priest attack buff and arcane (smasher's skill)
        Cons:
        - damage is often overestimated because it only deals double dmg to very large targets. The dmg is merely half of what i have stated in the research above for general targets.
        - require you to stack high ice % to be effective, or else, the damage will be low.

        The reason why i am considering getting lv13 (or higher) glacial spike is because the strong demand for high party DPS in GDN. Freeze status helps to boost the whole party dps. And also, green dragon resist 30% dark element and this makes poison less attractive in GDN.

        However, do remember that sea dragon is a boss with 30% water resist, which might be one of the thing you should consider , if you are at lvl40 cap.

        This will not an easy choice ^_^

        Choose wisely

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          Apr 4, 2012 7:35 am
          which do you think is better:

          Lvl 32 Vivace Staff (Magic Power) - M.Attack | AGI | Crit | MP Recovery

          or

          Lvl 40 Manticore Staff (Intellect) - AGI | INT | DARK

          which would give me the biggest damage output?

          Apr 4, 2012 12:32 pm
          Reply 1192#  fishboneEIGHT

          Alrite, i have just tested it in pvp with a friend of mine.

          Apparently, mirror induces a debuff of 2sec and periodically refreshes it whenever the debuff expire.

          However, when the mirror disappears/breaks, the debuff icon will hit 0 and disappear.

          So the debuff doesn't last more than the mirror itself, at least not significantly.

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          Even if i stand to lose everything, I'll preserve your memory for the tomorrows yet to be. Come what may. I could breathe my last breath, and the world be crumbling into oblivion.

          Dragon Nest CN
          Server: 华中电信二区
          IGN: 混沌飘渺
          Class: Lv 60 Smasher
          Guild: Freedom

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          Age of Wulin
          Server:电信一, 白马岩
          IGN: 毓珺琳
          School: Scholar
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          Apr 4, 2012 12:33 pm
          Reply 1197#  ColdFlaMes17

          As usual, i can't tell you the answer unless you give me your full stats, after equipping both choices of weapons.

          Choice 1:
          M.att
          Crit:
          Dark:
          FD:

          Choice 2:
          M.att
          Crit:
          Dark:
          FD:

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          Even if i stand to lose everything, I'll preserve your memory for the tomorrows yet to be. Come what may. I could breathe my last breath, and the world be crumbling into oblivion.

          Dragon Nest CN
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